VE pump problems after re-seal :(

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VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:19 pm

Hello again.

My original post is about 10 or so below this one ... when I developed an IP leak 250 miles (400kms) from home that required me to get my back-up truck and car trailer to bring it home.

So ... I bought a complete seal kit on Ebay, brought the truck (93 D250) into my shop and started investigating ... the cap on the opposite side (engine side) of the KSB had one screw backed out and I could see a broken green o-ring hanging out. I positioned the engine with the TDC pin, removed everything that was in the way and removed the pump.

Once on the bench I decided that since I have a complete seal kit and the fact that the IP does take a bit of time to remove, that I'd re-seal the entire thing. Yes this is my first VE ... so very carefully I took it apart making note of any little holes and positions of every single part, washed everything and re-assembled it. The only thing that I changed was removing the cap and spot welded band on the power screw and turned it in two full turns. The IP also has a BD pin and 3200 spring.

When it was back on the truck and fired up, it ran absolutely beautiful. I had to turn the idle down and with the idle screw backed out completely it idled at 755 rpm in park per my old Snappy red brick scanner. I went for a drive around my neighborhood (mountain/small acreage environment) and the truck ran simply perfect, I could feel at light throttle that it had more low speed grunt and I was very impressed.

I decided to go out on the highway and try a few 60 mph blasts and check for smoke. The first one I did felt impressive and did smoke more that it used to, but not horrible. Then I did another one and holly crap ... massive black smoke ... let off the pedal and it wouldn't stop smoking, but did idle down. I pulled over and when the truck was idling (very crappy and barely) the smoke was so obscene that you could hardly see the truck within a few seconds of running. It's very hard to fire up and if I'm lucky enough to get it to even catch ... the black smoke is insanely massive. So I had to hitch hike back home and get the back-up truck and car trailer and go get it ... again.

Just so you know that I'm not some white collar geek that sits in an office all day at IBM and dreams of being Mr. Mechanic, here is a bit about me. I'm almost 52 years old and have been pulling wrenches all of my life. I am a red seal journeyman automotive technician (that's what it is called here in Canada after completing the 4 year apprenticeship program successfully), I have never worked "flat rate" and have never worked in a "daily driver" repair environment, I specialize in restoring very expensive Mopar muscle cars with super high attention to detail and success, I also specialize in 727 transmissions and will spend 12 hours rebuilding one (including cleaning in a varsol tank), I'm highly critically anal and have a reputation for that ... but not an ego ... and I look like a bum ... lol. The cars motivate me more that the money. I'm the opposite of a flat rate thrash hack time is money mechanic. This 93 1st gen has been my introductory into the world of diesels and it's hooked me.

I'm surprised by my failure with the VE, but failures are a necessity and promotes education, experience and success ... so I'm quite ok with it. Now I need to turn to my internet friends that I may never meet in person :( and ask ... what and why did I do wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to read my story and I look forward to hearing any and all responses.
Kindest regards
Art
1993 W350, 1991 D250 (non IC), 1969 Plymouth GTX, 1961 Chrysler 300G, 1966 Chev BelAir
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby dazedandconfused » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:14 pm

Hmm I've never heard of one bellowing black smoke like that.
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby xohcef » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:24 pm

White smoke? Did the 12V source for the KSB come unplugged? Mine did a similar thing. Made a pull, let off and the truck was missing and shaking an send blowing smoke like crazy.
93 d350 extended cab dually, NV5600, he351cw, DDP stage 3, industrial man ported, ported head, 60# springs, 354 spring, holley blue, aeromotive fpr, South bend single disc/hydros, kelderman dual bag.
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:49 pm

Hi xohcef

The smoke is black and super thick. Fuel switch and KSB are both plugged in ... when the key is turned on and I plug and unplug the fuel switch I can hear a click, but when I do the same to the KSB I hear and feel nothing. I'm out at work right now ... work 560 miles away from home and am on a two - three week shift right now, so I haven't had a chance to look into the truck any further.

Thanks for the reply!
Art
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby coolhand_luke » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:04 pm

Did you change the timing on your pump when you put it back on?
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:52 pm

Coolhand_luke ... great movie!

Before I removed the pump it was set to 1.85 from the factory setting of 1.30 ... this time I set it to 1.60 because I seem to pull lots of car trailers with cars on them lately. I confirmed the setting twice and did watch the dial indicator while I tightened the three nuts. Like I said on my post ... it ran beautiful until I buried my foot to the floor and it just never recovered. Thanks for the reply!

Art
1993 W350, 1991 D250 (non IC), 1969 Plymouth GTX, 1961 Chrysler 300G, 1966 Chev BelAir
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby DodgeFreak » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:04 am

wonder if you lost an injector.
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby BC847 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:42 am

If he lost an injector, it seems it would produce heavy white smoke (been there / done that).

99 times out of 100, black smoke indicates a loss of air.

- Did you stuff any rags in the engine to keep trash out and forgot to remove them?
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:51 am

agreed.......black smoke is usually lack of air.

Blue and white smoke are injector issues or massively off timing.
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:39 am

Hello

Definitely no hidden rags. I just find it really weird that it ran so nice and then all of a sudden it fuels big time and non-stop.

Thanks Art
1993 W350, 1991 D250 (non IC), 1969 Plymouth GTX, 1961 Chrysler 300G, 1966 Chev BelAir
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby BC847 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:12 pm

Is your turbo stuck?
David

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Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:28 pm

BC847 ... stuck as in not rotating? Haven't checked ... am off working right now and the truck is at home ... but will check that out.

Thanks !
Art
1993 W350, 1991 D250 (non IC), 1969 Plymouth GTX, 1961 Chrysler 300G, 1966 Chev BelAir
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby coolhand_luke » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:42 pm

I would also check all boost connections and make sure you're not leaking anywhere. I didn't tighten one of my clamps once and after a solid throttle romp I noticed a loss of power and smoke everywhere. Did you lose power?
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Re: VE pump problems after re-seal :(

Postby ArtBee » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:59 pm

Mr. Luke

The first time that I was on the highway and nailed it to the floor it seemed to have more power than before the leak ... due to the power screw I'd assume. Then ever since it makes horrible power because it barely runs ... more like a 6 cylinder gasser with three plug wires off ... except massive thick black smoke. It's really hard to start up and most times won't even fire. It's like its getting tons of fuel and drowning it out. Is there something in the IP that would allow it to get tons of fuel even though the throttle blades (easiest description) are closed? And if so, then why did it run so nice until I gave it full throttle? ... it's like it's stuck on full fuel delivery all the time now even though the IP is sitting at idle.

Thanks again!
Art
1993 W350, 1991 D250 (non IC), 1969 Plymouth GTX, 1961 Chrysler 300G, 1966 Chev BelAir
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