KDP report

[jethro]

Got my front cover off a few minuites ago. The KDP was about .140 below the aluminum casting surface. I took a brass
1/4 inch rod and a hammer and gently bumped up against it about 3 times and measured again. Now it reads about .170 in.
I have to think it was a matter of time till it would have worked its way out. ! Don't know if it would have been a month - a year or 5 years......

I would say- as easy as it was to get to - don't let it slide !

I looked through a small gap into the crank /pan area with my LED flashlight...... There is NO dirt or sludge to be seen !
The oil I first drained out of it looked like coal dust------- Impressively clean for 1 oil change and
running about 4 hours !
Oil Pan is next........

What say the Mob ? do I use a factory gasket on the front cover ? I got the old one off in 1 piece ! how would Victorflex
do for making a duplicate ? And if I used Victorflex what sealant to go with it ? or should I use a thicker more cushoney gasket with no sealant added ??????? or just factory replacement ???????

Tim !

[PToombs]

You can use silicone for it if you want. The important thing is to replace the front seal and use the installer sleeve to make sure it's lined up right when you put the cover on.

[jethro]

Got a new cummins seal- don't know what the "installer slieve" looks like- is it a flat flexible sheet you roll up and put one end on the shaft and the other end through the hole in the new seal and then push forward letting the slieve guide the seal lips to stretch over the shaft.... then pull the sheet out ( Im just guessing here !!!!!!!!! That's how I might try it..... maybe Teflon sheet........)

Also- when I lock-tite the other case bolts in there- is blue locktite good enough ? I am very hesitant to use red -in general because you might destroy the part removing it (with heat) Was thinking about de-greasing bolts and holes with brake cleaner and then use blue locktite.

[DodgeFreak]

I have never needed to use heat to remove bolts with red Loctite.....I've never had a bolt break either because I've used red Loctite, And I use it on everything.

[ellis93]

I have never needed to use heat to remove bolts with red Loctite.....I've never had a bolt break either because I've used red Loctite, And I use it on everything.

This^^^^

I am almost positive that those who break bolts off from it being used must have over tightened the bolt to begin with or cross threaded,something other than just the loctite. Does it ever come apart easily after using the stuff,nope.

[BC847]

If you have the blue, use it.

[PToombs]

The sleeve is a plastic tube that goes in the seal, than sits on the crank when you put the cover on. It helps install the seal and is a centering device to make sure the cover is centered on the crank. You usually have to pull it out with pliers. And Sasquatch hands.

[BC847]

Install the new seal on a clean DRY crankshaft. Do Not oil it.

[jethro]

yeah- I wasn't saying that I have ever broken a bolt from red locktite - but I have seen them exert so much torque that I thought the bolt head would strip or round off- and If I remember correctly the stated "un-do" for red locktite is to heat the bolt until the locktite smokes- and then back it out before it cools. maybe not practical in an engine block. I have used lots of blue for gunsmithing- it seems to give a pretty good little bit of drag when removing- I would think that would be sufficient
as an anti-vibration device to prevent backing out in bigger bolts too ......... and I have a new bottle of blue !

Really impressed with the insides of the cummins engine !

Where would I find the plastic installation slieve ? (for the seal)

No engine oil on the slieve........ what about silicone grease like dow corning #4 (it is designed for lubricating O-rings
in aircraft parts like oil filter gaskets) Can you tell me what aspect of using oil on it is bad (since it will have oil on the back side when the engine runs) I am a beginner on diesels - so I need to learn all I can form the more experienced !

Thanks- Tim

PS---- I thought it went like " if it has tits or propellors its going to coast you money"

[Tacoclaw]

The seal has a coating that "melts" on first startup and creates the seal, any oil or wherever on it will prevent this and it will leak.


Every seal I've bought has the plastic sleeve stuck in the seal and a separate, stamped steel piece that you use to set the depth/orientation of the seal to the crank/cover.

[jethro]

Hummmmmm.....
I got this at my local dodge crysler dealer..... It is a plain looking seal with a metal shell and a plastic-looking angled lip on the inside (maybe3/16 wide- like a wiper) . Pushed into the middle of the seal is a thing that looks like a white plastic cookie.
The OD of the cookie seems to conform to the ID of the lip of the seal.(size and shape) The cookie is a solid disk. I assumed that the cookie
was there merely to prevent the seal from getting damaged during shipping and storage.
I did notice on the shaft where the seal rubs- there seemed to be a transfer of material into the shaft- like it deposited a thin
"smear" of material there. Like a continuous skid mark. The seal I took out of the cover looked to be about 1/4 inch below the front edge of the cover lip. (and the flat rubber edge of the seal having the molded-in part numbers was facing outward.)

Do you remember where you got your seal ? Maybe I could look at your version on-line and see what I am missing .....

OH- and thanks for the "secret" information about the seal having to be degreased and dry... !
I just got my Geno's catalog about 3 days ago--- do you think the printed manual is worth an extra 65$ over the CD ?
Obviously I need to find out ALL the "secret" things that are "special" about the cummins.....

Tim

[jethro]

Thanks for wondering about your seal being different than yours.......
I got my seal at the local dodge dealer. I went out to the shop and retrieved the old seal and the new on (and its bag).
The part numbers on the seals themselves are completely different. I went to geno's garage website and put in the 2 part numbers.... and wouldn't ya know- the one the dealer gave me is for 07.5 to 12 model year....... AND he even charged me the incorrect price too. He charged me for the 32$ seal and gave me the 10$ seal..........
And not to mention --- it seems to take them 20 minuites to find ANYTHING ! what the H@ll are computer supposed to be doing for us..... take that long and then give me the wronge part........

A lesson..... don't get the new part until you have the old one in hand to take with you.......

And I noticed - it DOES say right on the seal "install dry" !!!!!!!!
Pays to read the fine print

I wonder if the correct seal will come with a depth spacer included in the bag ????

Tim

[Tacoclaw]

Cool deal, glad you caught it.


I always get Cummins brand seals, be it from an actual Cummins store (about 1.5 hour drive, I only do that when I need lots-o-parts), or our local Case dealer. Any tractor/equipment place with a parts counter should be able to get you what you need if you can get them a Cummins or Case (CNH) part number.

They'll typically hassle you over wanting the engine ID number but if you hand them the seal's part number they don't need it. It's on the site here somewhere, I'll dig it up and add it here.


:edit:

Seal, Cummins: 3904353 CNH: J904353
Seal with speedy sleeve, Cummins: 3802820 CNH: J802820



Here's a PDF of a lot of our part numbers,

http://www.endurancepower.com/media/CATALOG_CUM.pdf

[jethro]

Thanks so much for the PDF catalog of parts !
That might help me from being given an incorrect part in the future !
Tim

[jethro]

I visited the dodge dealer again today where I got the seal and told them I thought it was incorrect-
They browsed their computer and told me that Dodge is recommending the 07.5 -2014 seal for all engines back to 1989.
They said they couldn't find ANY of the cummins or Mopar numbers I supplied them with.......
these people seem USELESS !

The question is- do I use this seal ? ( I feel a Geno's order coming on - for a bunch of things I would have bought at the dealer
except for the fact the dealer is at least 50% higher on everything AND they seem to have no answers on anything...... so geno's gets my dollars... )

What would you do ? I certainly don't want the thing dribbleing after it is installed into the truck later !

Tim