Starting up weird... [UPDATE]

[PToombs]

Sounds like it may be leaking air back into the system a little someplace and letting the fuel drain back. It may be that slight leak at the pump top you mentioned.
After the one went bad on my '97 I suspect the fuel heater 1st every time. It may have a bad o-ring or it may be melted at the terminals in the plug. Mine was bad in the terminals, it didn't leak fuel, but would let air in. When I unplugged the wire the fuel cam pouring out with it running.

[slow_90firebird]

Ok I will look into that when I get back home - I never knew these trucks had and electric fuel heater. I thought it had antifreeze lines going through it. I have seen oil pressure sensors like that where they leak out of the plug.

Thanks!

[PToombs]

Yup, fuel heater is right above the fuel filter. Have a safe trip home, and if you go Rt 90 thru Syracuse wave about 2 miles east of exit 34a, I'm right near there.

[DodgeFreak]

If you have stock lift pump I'd check into that also.

[slow_90firebird]

Made it home ok... I actually went up 81 outta Bristol TN, then i84 outta Scranton pa thru NY and home

Its too cold and snowing to work on it right now. But I did notice that fuel heater is pretty damp. Not dripping - just looks kinda sweaty around the seals...

Is there anybody who sells a replacement heater if I need one? I don't wanna delete it bc I still live up north technically

[PToombs]

Glad you made it home ok! You may have been better off going that way, the weather has been crappy here the last few days. Genos Garage has one, and for a reasonable price. I have a new one here someplace I got from the "pay it forward" on TDR, but damned if I have a clue where it is! The heater itself may not be bad, it may only be the O-rings are dried and cracked. I know the part number for them is posted here someplace, but I have bad luck with the search function.

[slow_90firebird]

Im going to look at it tomorrow hopefully...

I could not find the actual fuel heater on geno's. I found the gasket. I also saw they have one for 2nd gen trucks, it looks like it goes under the lift pump. Does that center heater part come out of the assembly, and will it fit on our trucks where our filter goes?

Also, how does the one on our trucks come off? It looks like it is just sandwiched between the filter, but i have changed the filter alot and it never came off...

[edit]
ok i found just the heater element for the 94+ trucks on geno's, says will not work on 89-93 right in the description. I might call them tomorrow.

I know the leak might be the o-rings, but if this heater is a common part to fail on these old trucks I would rather replace the whole thing if its cheap enough...

[KB-Cummins]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but in the HD world that I deal with (big CAT/ Cummins), there are typically check valves located throughout the fuel system to prevent fuel back flow during and after shut down. I am not 100% sure that these engines have any but it makes sense that they would. If the fuel heater O-rings don't solve your problem, a bad check valve might be something to look in to.

[slow_90firebird]

I have never read anything about check valves on these trucks, but that would make sense...

Today I put UV dye in the fuel tank and rinsed it down, and drove around a bit. But when I was gone my father moved all my tools around again and now I cant find my UV flashlight! found the glasses tho...

I called Genos, they said there is no such thing as a new fuel heater for our trucks... they said cummins stopped making it a few years ago, and they cant find one anywhere!

Anyway, I tried pulling the plug on the heater and the retainer snapped off! But no diesel came out of the plug. I want to try to take it apart, but I need to know what tools are required to get the fuel heater off... once i take the filter off to look, i cant drive the truck.

Also, I was wondering if I was supposed to be using that little square cut o-ring that comes with the fuel filter? I have never used it, but according to the dodge book it goes somewhere i just dont know where.

[PToombs]

Ahhhhhh, where to start? I thought the heater was the same for both 1st and 2nd gen trucks. I know on the equipment at work, the 12 and 24 volt systems use the exact same heater by part number. It looks exactly the same as the one I have here (someplace ) which is for a 2nd gen. I haven't removed the one from my 1st gen yet, so I'm not 100% they are the same and don't want to swear to it and screw you up. It does mount the same, on ours the stud holds it in, and on the 2nd's the bottom strainer comes off and then the stud screws out. If you remove the heater, just pull the stud and then screw the strainer back in. On ours you need the shorter stud to eliminate it.
You need a wide straight screwdriver to remove it. Just pull the filter, and screw the threaded stud out and the heater will drop down. The newer ones use a 5/16 or 8mm allen head up the middle.
There is no check valve in our systems. There is an orifice in the banjo bolt in the return line at the injection pump.
As for the square o-ring, I wonder if it is for the heater? I never got an extra o-ring when I bought filters, so I'm only guessing on that one. Is it thin? Like 1/8th inch? If so, probably for the heater.

[slow_90firebird]

Ok cool so there is a slot in the fuel filter stud I can take it out...

The extra little o ring that comes with wix filters is pretty small it wouldn't work on the heater. My best guess is that it is supposed to go over the threaded stud before you screw the filter on, but that doesent make sense... Oil filters don't have them?

I am guessing that if I need to change the o ring on the heater, I can find one off the fuel filter or some oil filter that fits...

[slow_90firebird]

heres the o-ring i was asking about. It comes with the new filter along with the round one for the WIF sensor. I always changed the one on the WIF sensor, but then I threw that other one out! I had no idea where it was supposed to go...

[PToombs]

Oh, yup, that one! Sorry, I forgot all about that bugger! That's to make sure the dirty fuel doesn't take a shortcut and bypass the filter.

[slow_90firebird]

Ok here's an update. last nite I found my UV flashlight and tried it out wearing the yellow glasses. It worked great! Even 1/2 of that little bottle in the fuel tank, washed down with some kerosene and driven around for a few days, I could see exactly where it was leaking from... So most of the leaking was around the WIF sensor area - i know I put the new o-ring on when I changed that filter, so I think the drain valve might be leaking a little. Also, it was coming out pretty bad around the actual filter seal itself, even though the filter was plenty tight! Finally, even though the fuel heater was all damp, there was only part of that sealing surface where I could see the smallest trace of the dye... but the heater's electrical connector did not show any dye...

Today I took off the napa filter, and I wanted to re-seal the heater using the o-ring trick from an oil filter, but I spent over 4hrs trying and I could not get that filter nipple to come loose. I tried the 2 nut method, but I could not get the second one started enough. I even tried vice-grips but they just marred up the threads... those stupid little slots in the bottom are useless.

In the end I just put on a new baldwin filter with its own drain valve built in - I will live without the WIF sensor for a while to see if it starts better. Im just dissapointed that I could not get that fuel heater off!

[PToombs]

It shouldn't be that tight! I wonder if somebody had a problem and loc tited it? Sometimes they come loose on their own when the filter comes off. Clean it good and run it with the new filter. I did away with my WIF sensor and just run a Fleetguard FS1221 or something. Hopefully you got it fixed.
Tomorrow I get to find the leak on my '97, the filter housing is all wet on it. I hope it's just the o-ring on the housing, what a bitch to get at.