Advice on VE pump

[PToombs]

Just make a tab for it from some sheet metal. It doesn't need to be from a kit. Just need a tab to cover the pin from the nearest bolt so it can't come out. Philip usually stakes them with a punch and has good luck. On the 1st gens the bolts are more important. More bolts fall out than dowel pins. Don't forget to change the front seal!

[nooblet]

Don't forget to change the front seal!

People keep telling me this, Are you referring to the "crank shaft seal" or the seal for the whole gear cover?

Also where exactly is the dowel pin? My gear cover is off right now and I looked all over the place and didn't see it. I only vaguely know what I'm actually looking for though! I know I'm looking for a dowel pin that may or may not be sticking out from the back of the gear case.

I have everything off except the pump, tomorrow I'm fabricating a metal bar with holes to pull the gear off the IP. My plan is to pull the gear mostly off, then unbolt the IP and keep the gear in place as I pull the IP out. I have no idea if this is how I should be doing it, or if there is some reason why this won't work, but that is the best plan I have at the moment lol!

Random question: approximately what kind of pressure is the fuel at coming into and out from the IP? When I cracked the lines at my IP I expected a little bit of fuel to spray, but I got nothing...just a few drops after I pulled the lines completely off. I guess I thought the fuel was under a lot more pressure than it actually is under, or maybe my leaking IP just caused a loss in stagnant pressure. Just curious....

Thanks a ton for all the help and advice so far guys...I hope I'm not wearing your patience thin with all these newb questions! I hear and read a lot, but its different when I'm laying down my money and working on my truck that I need to take me to work. I want to make sure I get things right the first time!

Thanks,
Chris

[Ichiro]

Hope this works...this is a thread from DTR; with a couple pics!

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... p?t=154488

[nooblet]

Hope this works...this is a thread from DTR; with a couple pics!

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... p?t=154488

Thanks helps a ton!! Thanks!

Chris

[PToombs]

That's a great pic of the pin!
The crank seal is what I'm referring to.
That's a good way to pull the gear. There is a key in there, watch for it.
The 2nd gen trucks don't have the key. (FYI)
Also, check the timing marks and write it down, in case of ooops!
Fuel pressure is usually between 3-7 lbs. on the supply circuit. It will bleed off when not running.

[nooblet]

Thanks for the info!

The pump is out, I managed to never take the IP gear out, so I should have no timing problems. I noted some letters matching up just in case though. I'm taking the pump into the shop tomorrow morning to get rebuilt, hopefully I'll have it back before we get hit with a hurricane!

I'll post up some pictures tomorrow, I'm too tired to mess with it tonight

Chris

[nooblet]

Pictures as promised!

I took off the belt, oil filler neck, and fan...



Gear case off...



My dowel pin...



Different angle so you can see how far its countersunk....



IP gear puller I made, I put it next to the badge for scale...



Pump out...



Is this the key?



Thanks to everyone for your help! Hopefully I'll get my pump back in 2-3 days and start putting it back in. I'm going to adjust the timing when I reinstall it, how much should I turn my pump? Can I turn it to far or am I only limited by the top of the pump hitting the engine?

Chris

[nooblet]

A few questions at this point.

1. My dowel pin is countersunk at 310k miles, should I still do something to it? If yes... my case is different than both the cases in the pictures a few posts up, I don't see anyway I can make a washer type fix work. That leaves me with what options? (is the non-ic gear case different than the ic gear cases?).

2. I am going to replace the crank shaft seal since I've been told by several people (who know a lot more about these engines than i do) that I need to. How do I get to the seal? Do I pull that key first? Then the gear? Why do I need to replace this seal? Is it a common failure? Or is it just something thats really easy to do at this point and can't hurt? (I'm doing it either way, just curious).

3. I'm told bolts coming loose and falling into the gear case is not uncommon on first generation Cummins. I'm going to tighten them all up. Should I put locktite on these? Also which bolts do I need to tighten? Any bolt I see or are there certain problematic bolts I need to pay special attention to?

4. I'm really confused on this whole "key" thing. What does the key do? Why do I need to take it out? Is this just the way of telling that the engine is at TDC? I'm not sure if the engine is at TDC, so I'm afraid to pull the key out at the risk of breaking it like I was told earlier in this thread I could do. How do I know when the key is free to be removed? If the key is the what I posted in that picture above, do I need to remove those two screws and take that little housing off? Or is the center part the key and I just pull that out?

Thanks once again guys! I owe you all a cold one when I'm done with this! If you ever come to San Antonio hollar at me and I'll stay true to my word!

Chris

Edit: The factory service manual diesel supplement should be here sometime in the middle of this week, hopefully it will help me understand a lot of what I'm asking questions about!

[wannadiesel]

That's the timing pin. The "key" is a woodruff key that locates the injection pump gear to the injection pump shaft.

With stock injectors you won't need to crank the pump over to the head. Try an 1/8" bump (match marks 1/8" apart) and see how you like that.

Take a punch and peen the case over the dowel pin in a couple spots, that will hold it just fine.

The crank seal is in the timing cover that you already pulled off. They often leak when reassembled, that's why folks are telling you to replace it while you have the cover and crank damper off.

Yes, loctite all the case bolts. All you can see, you will have to turn the motor over to get at a couple so put the pump back in first.

[PToombs]

Wanna pretty well covered it! The bolts are the ones that hold the timing case, (piece the gears are in) on to the block. There are 5 of them near and behind the cam gear. You need to bend a 10mm wrench to get a couple.

Hey! His head doesn't leak coolant!

[nooblet]

Well I'm all done and the truck runs great! A few random pictures that I took after my last post.

Thanks for talking me into buying this guys. I would highly recomend it to anyone who doesn't already have one.



Crank seal. Whats the larger seal for?



The guy at the shop gave me this for some reason!



For anyone who might find this post while trying to replace thier pump... Don't forget to put this back in!!





This is what I set my timing at, what do you guys think?



Well I'm super happy to have my truck back up and running. The pump is completely stock right now except for the 3200 rpm spring that the shop put in. I'm going to leave it for a week or two to make sure nothing happens to the pump that I need to use the warranty on. The timing bump makes a noticable difference, and the spring is crazy!

Thanks a ton to everyone who posted with all the helpful comments and suggestions! I would not have finished this as quickly and successfully as I did with out the help of this Board!

I have many more projects planned for my truck, so I'm not gonna wander off just yet

Chris

[nooblet]

2 stroke oil is the new hot ticket for lubricity. The cost is reasonable, it's easy to get, and it's made to burn clean.

Can I get some more info on this? What ratio are people running? I'm either doing 2-stroke oil or getting some good diesel additive, I don't want to do this any time soon. My buddy and his family has had good luck with their additive, if I don't do 2-stroke oil I'll run what they are running.

Chris

[PToombs]

The ring is the install tool for the seal.
The bracket that's circled? I hope you cut the top off, makes it easier to get to the shut off solenoid, if you have problems.
The timing looks good!
If you lose that tab, you'll curse yourself later!
Glad to be able to help!

[nooblet]

I don't know what I did to anger the first gen Gods, but I sure pulled it off! not even 200 miles after I installed my rebuilt IP my transfer case goes boom. Tomorrow I'm pulling my NP205 out and start rebuilding it : /.

I would still like to know more about the 2-stoke oil deal. Anyone have any info on this?

Chris

[PToombs]

Over on Cummins Forum they have a big (20?)page thread on this. I was going to run about 10-15 ozs in a full tank. Probably start tomorrow, I need to fill up.

You probably didn't make enough smoke! If you do mods, you have to make lots of smoke to appease the Gods!

And the timing bump looks good too! (i forgot to add that before)