New Injection Pump won't Squirt Fuel

[Begle1]

Trying to start my truck with the new IP on.

I primed it up to the injection pump with the lift pump, and I continued to prime it to the point that fuel was coming out of injector #4.

When I crank, it doesn't seem to be squirting out of the lines like it should. Typically it gushed a jet of fuel two feet high, now it just bubbles out slowly with little pressure. It bubbles out of all the injectors, but it doesn't seem to have any pressure to it.

Checked the shut-down solenoid; it is receiving voltage.

The pump has the idle screw turned out an inch, so I'd assume they recalibrated it to a point that it should run. I wouldn't imagine they'd tune it down to the point that it wouldn't start?

What did I do wrong? What am I forgetting? How do I start this thing?

[KTA]

Hold the foot feed on the floor and crank it and see if it will start.

[Begle1]

"Foot feed"?

You mean the fuel pedal? I tried cranking with the throttle level stuck on full.

[cummins king]

wornt you haveing this problem with your old ip

[Begle1]

My old IP wouldn't stay running. It always pressurized the fuel fine at the injectors, though...

[Begle1]

So I bought a can of ether.

I gave it a second-long shot of ether, cranked, nothing. Did that about three times, the fourth time it ran for a second. I couldn't repeat it. Cracked an injector and tried to see if I could get fuel out of it. About the third shot of ether into it, and it ran for a second again and I saw a jet of fuel out of it.

Oh boy, I'm excited now.

So I cracked the injectors open one at a time, and I had to crank the engine with ether 3-5 times on each injector to get fuel to jet out of them.

Once I got fuel jetting out of all the injectors, I made sure they were all tight and cranked. No start. So I had to crank it with ether another couple times to finally get the thing idling.

And it started idling the exact same way as it was before. Only now it was leaking out of the bolt on the bottom front of the pump that holds the "special washer". I tightened the bolt as much as I dared, and it still was leaking.

So I threaded out the bolt, and it had a little bit of vaseline-like spooge on it north of the O-ring. (?) And the O-ring looked way to small for the slot it fit in, but I wiped off the tad of spooge and put it back in. Stopped leaking for now.

So I started it again (didn't take ether this time!) and it still had the rough idle. I let it idle for 2-3 minutes while watching my $500 rebuild proving itself vain, and all of a sudden it cleared up. Instead of loping between 550 and 650 RPM it went up to 800 and stayed there, like it's supposed to do.

I let it idle like that for ten minutes, shut it off, started it and it went right up to 800 RPM again.

So at the moment it seems to be running, but I don't think I fixed anything, I don't understand why it was so hard to start, and there's a really nasty valve tick now.

So now I'm off to inspect my valve train and figure out what that is before I test drive it.

Hopefully I can get it running by the end of December!

[cummins king]

well at lest it runs

[Begle1]

So I pulled off my valve covers, adjusted the timing. Nothing was out of the ordinary. Put the covers back on, started it. The idle wasn't too smooth, but it was better than before. Noise seemed to be decreased a tad.

So I decided to drive it around the block. It blew some white haze constantly for 500 feet and then powered out and stalled. I never took it above 1600 RPM if first gear.

Cracked the injectors to bleed it in the middle of the residential street; didn't seem to squirt any for the 3 minutes I tried it. Even tried shooting it with ether with an injector cracked a few times. Couldn't get any spray.

After a few minutes a kind Hispanic gentleman offered to help me back to my driveway, so I gave him $5 for his efforts. It beat the heck out of towing it back home with grandma's Kia Sorento.

Gotta be an air leak, right? Anybody want to ventilate it a few times with an assault rifle to give it a real air leak?

[dpuckett]

I think the reason it took so long to start was air in the lines. I have had them get air in the system and be a real booger to bleed.

I would start looking at all the hard fuel lines (esp on the return) for any evidence of cracks or breaks. I had a return line break on me, and it leaked like a seive. $40 later and all was well.

Your white smoke sounds like a timing issues (very retarded). Are you SURE you got the key in the keyway, and that the pump didnt jump a tooth when the pump was out?

Did you get your injectors checked out with the pump, and how is the fuel filter?

Daniel

[Begle1]

The fuel filter is good. I managed to run one tank of new Diesel through it just fine... I guess could be back to looking at a bacteria infestation. The 5 gallons of fuel I took out of the questionable tank still look fine, though.

I'm not sure that it didn't jump a tooth. Seemed like the gear was designed so that it couldn't do that with the timing cover on? If it's possible to do that then having the thing super retarded sounds like a good bet. I know it wasn't more than one tooth at any rate (the holes were still roughly horizontal after I got it wedged on), but that could explain the hard starting and white smoke.

When I spin the engine I can see the nut on the pump shaft spinning. I'd assume that if the key was screwed up it wouldn't even idle or run down the street for a few hundred feet, right?

How could a cracked return line cause any problems? It'd leak, but could it somehow recirculate around and put air in the system?

I didn't get my injectors checked. Think a new pump could aggravate existing injector problems? They were kind of sloppy before, I need some sort of 7mm's for my new head.

Headgasket maybe? No reason to believe that...

[PToombs]

A helpful hint when bleeding; crack ALL injector lines, turn it over. When you get fuel, close those that have it. If you spin it and get fuel on 3 or 4, tighten them up and spin it again. It should start firing. This saves battery and time.
It sounds like you have other issues for sure. Air leak is the most probable.

[Begle1]

A helpful hint when bleeding; crack ALL injector lines, turn it over. When you get fuel, close those that have it. If you spin it and get fuel on 3 or 4, tighten them up and spin it again. It should start firing.

And you're supposed to get fuel squirting out in a firing order and everything. It just doesn't seem to be consistently fueling. I had all of 'em cracked open for the first twenty minutes when I was first going at it with ether... Then I got a mist out of one. Air in the injection lines can seriously be that hard to get out? Manuals don't say anything about pre-filling the lines or anything.

Even if timing was faulty it should be consistently shooting fluid, right?

It's like a damn House episode. Maybe it has lupus or porphyria.

I think the best diagnosis is that there is an invisible and persistent air leak in the fuel heater, which is not leaking even though it is under pressure. And then it is timed wrong with pinholes in every injector, a disintegrated headgasket and no piston rings, and the valves are all chunked to Hell due to ether use. And the solenoid is welded shut.

[PToombs]

Dude, take a deep breath, hold, and let the smoke out. Feel better?

When I do a pump or whatever, I fill the filter, (if it's been off) Open the bleeder above the filter, and pump the primer. When I get fuel, I close the bleeder, and pump 'til I hear the orifice squeal, (p-pumps) or I feel the pump kinda go away, which means I got pressure. Then I open the lines at the injectors, and spin it over 'til I get fuel there. Tighten the lines, and it usually starts. Obviously this isn't working for you, so you must have an air leak. Did you try the clear hose test? The other option, if you think it's the heater, is to pull it out. IIRC, you need the other shorter nipple with out it. Pull it out, and check the o-ring and replace the o-ring. Inspect carefully for cracks, then install.
If you are spinning it, and the injectors aren't squirting, you definetely have air sucking in someplace big time! Did you have the tank or sender out? The only other thing is the lines from the tank.


When it quits, is the filter full? or less? If the filter is full, the leak is between there and the pump. If not full, between filter and tank!
hope this helps ya!
pete

[flashgordon]

Begle1, IM telling yeah!
ITS TIME FOR THE CLEAR PLASTIC FUEL LINE. remove the fuel line from the pump and loop one there. a 2nt on after the fuel filter and the 3d one on the return line going back to the tank..................If you get enough line you can loop them all around you master cylinder and close the hood and you can wrought one out and over you wind shield wiper so you can see it while you driving!

If it was a return line leaking, it would cause a hard start after it set for awhile........like over night.

My guess is it pulling air form the curly plastic line inside the take module

I have seen the metal bracket rub a hole in the lines inside the tank cause air, even with a full tank.........when under acceleration.

You have got to try it! If there is no air then you can mark it off you list!

Go by 20' of clear vinyl and find out.

One more thing, that i just learn.........If you have the stock lift pump and you left the priming lever down...........................You might as well have a on off valve on there and you turned it off
What i found is that when you push it all the way up, there is a detent that hold it up there!!!!!!!!!!!

Flash.

[Begle1]

I ran a line from the injection pump inlet directly into a can of fuel on the radiator, back when it was loping at idle. When that didn't make an iota of difference I momentarily considered the rest of the fuel system eliminated from contention.

I can check for bubbles with nylon lines tomorrow. I'll see if I can find some compression fittings to put into the port out of the block and the inlet port to the IP.

It's gotta be easier to find than damn metric hose barbs. I think I'm going to order some Swagelok's tomorrow.

I have a somewhat custom sender... It's just a metal pipe that goes straight down and has a screen on the end of it. Pulled the tank three times so far, I don't think there's a problem there.

When using steel reinforced line, make sure you don't short your sender to your lift pump or your fuel gauge will stop working.

I have a piston lift pump, and I know it's flowing good... At idle it fills up a liter bottle with fuel in about 30 seconds when I'm drawing fuel out of a tank on the radiator.

When it stalled I cracked the bleeder banjo and hit the primer bulb. I had lots of fuel come out within a couple pumps; I would think that would indicate a full fuel filter, and a blockage somewhere else.

Pete, if I want to feel better I hold the smoke in for longer.

Anybody know how I can run it with the shut-off solenoid totally removed? Is there something I can use as a plug? If that's screwing up it could be causing all these problems, and wasn't replaced when they rebuilt the pump.