Build Order, What should come next?

[SWI Don]

I've been scouring the forums trying to learn what I can about the first gen engine that's been transplanted in my truck. I acquired a 14k gvw trailer that is at capacity when hauling my skid loader and now it would be nice to have a little more power. The limiting factors at this time I think are the fact it is non intercooled and the NV4500 5th gear.

Currently have the head off to redo the head gasket that was leaking under the thermostat. It is bone stock as far as I can tell. The truck doesn't smoke at all except for startup and will build 25+ pounds of boost at high rpm under load.

Current plan is to put 60# springs in since I have the head off and will replace the seals. I pulled the injectors. They have 4 holes so I am assuming they are the 4 x 0.013 non IC injectors. They have 7mm bodies. Is that possible? I am going to drop them off at the diesel shop in town and have them checked out. I don't for see any problems with the injectors. More of a just checking to be sure there are no problems. I also ordered a 16 cm housing for the h1c turbo, since it is on the bench too. It has an 18 cm currently but hopefully it will help it come on boost a little sooner.

What should be my next move? Upgrade the compressor housing via GDS 60 or similar? Fuel pin and spring? Or ?? When is an aftercooler necessary? I will probably be looking at an air to water aftercooler.

I am not looking to make huge HP just liven it up some when pulling. It's a lot of fun to drive empty, it just needs a little more when loaded for bear.

Thanks in advance.

Don

[RCCUMMINS89]

7mm tip is probably a Bosch 190, or potentially a POD injector. Personally, I would try and return that 16cm housing, it is going to have a very minimal gain.

Natural order of mods (at least the way I do it).

Fuel pin and gov spring.

Gauges (boost and pyro)

Mild pump tuning (maybe a turn or two on the power screw)

M&H timing spacer

Turbo, especially since the non i/c trucks have the baby h1c. I wouldn't run anything larger than a 14cm housing, and I would personally go with an he351cw if I didn't want to buy a new one. If new one was within the budget.... depends on the hp end goal... but for towing... Super B. Towing HEAVY and with 350+hp....62fmw. For a non i/c play truck, 62fmw

Exhaust and BHAF air fitler

Hungry Diesel piston lift pump at 15psi.

More pump tuning.






As far as injectors go......Marine 370s are almost impossible to beat in a non i/c engine (155 degree spray angle).

[SWI Don]

So in your opinion the h1c is doa? Find something else.

Got the gauges and a big air filter right on the turbo. 4" exhaust out the back is done. Still have the 3" downpipe though.

So start out with the fuel pin and gov spring.
Power screw and timing spacer.

I've seen your lift pump and it's on the list.

On the turbo. If I find an he351cw what housing do I use to get it headed over the top again? Most of the ones I have seen with a quick search are set up for Intercoolers (point forward). Or do I need to fab up a pipe to bend it back over? Looks like I have to deal with the boost solenoid too.

So should I get my injectors retipped to Marine 370's now if they are worn? How much smoke / fuel economy loss will I be dealing with?

Thanks for the reply.

Don.

[RCCUMMINS89]

Less smoke, increase economy, increase power. 370s are a 5 hole injector and are more efficient than a 4 hole. Just get new injectors, as most all of the price of an injector is the nozzles anyways. Plus we'd be building off your bodies. UNLESS you have Delphi POD's in there.... no core credit will be given on them.

You'll have to fab up a new cross over pipe.

[oldestof11]

According to Jeff at Mumau, there is a 4 hole that measures the same as a non-ic injector with a 7mm shank.

[SWI Don]

@oldestof11 That looks like what I have. My injector guy called me yesterday and said that the tips were not typically used for automotive applications but that the applications they showed were 250-275 hp so I should have a little room to play. His comment is that my pump must be turned way down. Today was disassemble and clean up the head day which turned into lets do a valve job because they look like they could use a touch up.

Fed Ex is on my list to get coal this year for xmas. My springs sat all day in Omaha (my delivery hub) instead of going out for delivery and have an unknown delivery time. The turbine housing I ordered at the same time shipped UPS and was here today.

[RCCUMMINS89]

"not typically used for automotive application" tells me they are a marine or agg application....which is well... anything listed above.

[SWI Don]

My engine is painted Cummins tan. So it would be no surprise if it had industrial injectors in it. Tag is a Cummins reman tag. Story I got is it was a re-manned engine with about 80K on it when it got swapped into my truck. I bought the truck almost 5 years ago and haven't had much for problems with it. The engine has been rock solid except for this coolant leak. In current form it will get up to 23 mpg in good going. It gets closer to 15-20 doing the stuff I do with it.

Things that have been done:
4" Diamond Back exhaust w/o muffler
13" SB organic clutch that went in when I OH the NV4500 tranny
Its a swap so it has a pretty good sized K&N air cleaner on a turbo mounted elbow
Timing may have been bumped 4°

Fed Ex is still holding my springs and head gasket hostage. I have work for the truck to do after Christmas so I need to get it back together.

[CumminsPower59]

What is your reasoning on the "limiting factor" on the NV? They are pretty solid transmissions, barring you aren't pulling 20k in fifth gear at low engine RPM's. Even then, there are several options for mitigating the lock nut from loosening, one being a collar that is slid on the output shaft, splined on the inside, with four tangs that interlock with the lock nut slots, keeping the lock nut from loosening. No worries

[RCCUMMINS89]

The nv4500 5th gear IMO has the same rap as the kdp.... yea, it happens, sounds common... but in reality is still a small percentage of them actually fail in the grand scheme of things. Much like the early common rails with failed valve seats

[SWI Don]

Got the truck back together last night. 60# springs in and 16cm housing. Got one injector that leaks compression. It's in a different hole this time than before so I believe it to be something with the injector.

Haven't had a chance to drive it. It was 1:30 this morning when we got it going. Probably change the oil and take it home later today.

My comment about the NV is more based on the fact that the 5th gear had already started to come loose with ~15-20K on the build. The tranny wasn't new or rebuilt when the swap was put together that I know of but it is a late GM tranny with the Dodge input. There isn't as much room for a 5th gear fix. I know the guy I had rebuild it tried to double nut it and had to take it off as I was shy ~.250" of coming flush to the transfer case. The tranny guy said that Cummins are real hard on trannys.

I typically drive it in 5th when not towing or towing light trailers (7000 gvw or less). When running heavier trailers loaded (14K-20K) I usually just deal with 4th as it will go a little over 60 pegged out and I generally need all I can get at that point.

Next step: figure out my injector problem and start working the pump over.

[CumminsPower59]

If the injector leak is coming between the nut and the injector, you can tighten the nut a few more lb-ft past the 44 lb-ft that is spec. Always worked for me. Not to be an a$$, but it sounds like your transmission guy is full of crap. The fix for the fifth gear nut requires no more room than what's already there. Just slides right on. If that's too much, than just weld the darn thing on like Ellis did. Easy as can be, and no more worries.

[SWI Don]

I gave the injecter nut a quarter turn past additional past the 44 lb-ft and it still seeps. I'll have the injector guy take a look at it today. Maybe there is a bur or dent on the injector body or the snap ring is weak. He may just crank it down some more. How much is too much for injector nut torque?

[CumminsPower59]

I'm not sure, but I've had to do it several times before. Just really depends.

[PToombs]

The reason the 5th gear nut backs off is from lugging it below 1600 or so RPMs in 5th gear. The engine actually surges that low and keeps torqueing the shafts, on, off, on, off, which causes the nut to work it's way off.