Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:17 pm

1320Fastback wrote:I just did KDP, case bolts, removed and resealed the entire pump so here's my $0.02

The seal is behind the drive gear which you can not move with the timing cover on like DodgeFreak says. To replace seal with pump ON motor you would have to pull the radiator, fan, hoses, belt, remove crank dampener, remove timing cover, remove nut and washer from pump and then pull the gear off. Only then could you press a new seal into the pump.

Your correct though if the KDP hadn't been done or you just don't know, if you have the time this would be the way to fix it. All of my case bolts were finger tight at best when I did mine a few months ago but the KDP hadn't moved at all.

So if you don't have time to tab the KDP and loctite the bolts right now pulling the pump is a lot less work. Remove oil fill tube, remove nut and washer behind it, scribe an alignment mark where pump meets case and remove the 3-13mm pump mount bolts, pop the gear loose of the pump shaft with a puller, remove throttle cable and the three electric wires, remove the 6 injection tubes and their clamps up at valve covers, there is a nut and a bracket under the pump to loosen and swing out of the way and then the pump should come out.

It sounds like a lot but is much easier than taking the timing cover off, it's just lots of little things.


This makes me think I should be pulling the pump and the timing cover. I think Ill have time over the next couple evenings and the plant Im working at is ok with it. Just need the parts for the timing cover. Just crank seal, cover gasket and coolant?
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby DodgeFreak » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:15 pm

Most just use a good silicone for the cover gasket. My supply line is froze on mine and I think the only way for me to get it broke loose is to pull the afc housing off so I can get a good line wrench on the adapter and the line.
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:43 am

DodgeFreak wrote:Most just use a good silicone for the cover gasket. My supply line is froze on mine and I think the only way for me to get it broke loose is to pull the afc housing off so I can get a good line wrench on the adapter and the line.


Good call on pulling the afc, Ill give that a try
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby DodgeFreak » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:44 pm

just make sure you don't loose the top hat and spring, and its easier to pull the fuel screw out and remember how many turns you backed it out unless you have the collar on still. Also make sure to take a note of the throttle indexing.
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:05 am

Put a few min into it after work yesterday, broke the back of the timing pin off, broke the oil pressure sending unit off, Im about to say fkcu it and let it get towed
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:01 pm

Alright, excuse my temper please.


Got the timing case opened up. It appears the timin pin was already in, sheared and left in that position. Explaims why it wouldnt go in....

A few ?'s:

Pump driveshaft has some slop, not much but noticable for sure. Is that ok?

The key in the pump drive gear had shavings on it, one side is grooved like the drive gear was putting shear load on it and slowly cutting into it. Im guessing I need a new key but is there an issue that caused this symptom?

I count 5 bolts inside the timing case to locktite, including the one by the kdp, is that correct?

I plan to replace the timing pin with a blockoff plate, tab the kdp (bottomed in its bore), and obviously replace the pump shaft seal, key and mounting gasket.

Any other suggestions?
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:18 pm

Shaft seal is replaced, I did it from the inside of timing case without pulling the pump the rest of the way. Now I have to prime and bleed for nothing but oh well.

Kdp is tabbed with 3/32 stainless filler wire under original bolt.

Just need the key and zip it up.

Id really like to hear some opinions on the damage to the shaft key, though.
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:03 pm

On the road again, no visible fuel leaks. :jumpsmile:
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby 1320Fastback » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:03 pm

Good to hear, you did remember to change your oil?

I think the key wear could be considered normal wear and tear of years of use.
92 D250, Getrag 5 Speed, 3.54, extra cab, long bed, AC works, Airbags.
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:40 pm

I did change the oil and filter. I checked level a few times before leaving, once an hour later and again when I was close to home. The oil is still getting fuel in it. Level rose 5/8" on the stick from eighth below upper safe mark in four hours of driving 55-65mph. Used almost half a tank where I usually use just over a quarter. The oil smells like fuel and seems diluted a bit.

It seems I either botched the job or have another leak.

I need to test the lift pump next.

Good news is the truck is home without the $1600 tow I was quoted.
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby 1320Fastback » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:04 pm

On the old 12V the only two places for diesel to get into the oil are the lift pump and shaft seal.

On your injection pump was the shaft seal popped out?
92 D250, Getrag 5 Speed, 3.54, extra cab, long bed, AC works, Airbags.
1320Fastback
fuel pin?
 
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:40 pm

No, the seal was not pushed out at all. The inner surface of the seal was visibly worn compared to the new one, and there is slop in the shaft. After lots of internet searching and reading, I'm thinking the shaft slop is not allowing the seal to do it's job, and it must be the bushing in the front of the pump is worn.

I did find today that the fuel filter was leaking a bit at the fuel heater. Replaced the filter then the water drain was leaking. I left a hose and bottle rigged under it and it overflowed the half gallon jug in a few hours. Some wiggling and its stopped dripping.

I've been looking into replacing both pumps, standard reman ip and low pressure piston lift pump, obviously more diagnosis to do before drawing conclusions. Anyone have experience with Hungry Diesel stuff? I see their parts a lot in searching piston lift pumps.
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby DodgeFreak » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:07 am

Eric (rccummins on here) is the only one with a high volume low pressure lift pump. He also sells reman ips. Either set to stock or to turned up.
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:55 pm

Im planning on pulling both the ip and lp when I go home this weekend, and Ive worked out a ghetto rigged pressure test idea, wanted to share so others can add input or just tell me Im a dumbass, whatever rows your boat....

With the pump clamped upright in a bench vise, attach a fuel supply hose to inlet and plug outlet. Route hose upward to my test device, a collection of triclover sanitary parts that creates a 1.5"x1" chamber with an air hose quick connect on top, hose barb on bottom and removeable end caps. Fill pump, hose and most of test device with fuel and fasten top cap. Apply air regulated to 10psi and look for leaks. Maybe wiggle the ip shaft and lp lever too.

I can handle replacing both pumps right now, I cant handle spending that kinda money without knowing damn sure exactly where the leak is.

Im also trying to choose between the walbro 392 and a piston pump, with bypass regulator for either.
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
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Re: Leaking fuel between ip and timing case

Postby liftarc » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:51 am

I rigged a hydrostatic pressure test for each pump by mounting in a vise, plugging outlets, filling with fuel then adding air pressure. Ip held 20psi without a drip of leak even as i wiggled the shaft. Lp was weeping slowly at 10psi, 20psi about the same. Not enough fuel to show at external weep hole but it was visible inside the casting.

Looking to upgrade to an electric lp and aftermarket filtration in the hope that I can get as many miles as possible out of the ip.
92 D350 club cab flatbed dually-201k G360, NP205,D60 swap soon
92 Ramcharger 5.9 Magnum, 46rh, NP241-238k
liftarc
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:28 pm
Location: State of Jefferson
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