Bigger injection pumps?

[seeker1056]

Does anyone know of a bigger VE style pump from say a big truck, or farm tractor that could be adapted to our motors?

I like the idea that we can adjust power at the turn of a screwdriver, something you can not do with a P-style pump.

(Not to mention if I was gonna pay that much to convert - I would go all out n get a sigma pump.)

I am just thinkin, as a long time truckpuller, and havin watched the prostock tractors with a 4 or 6 cylinder, one turbo, n water makin in excess of 1500-2000 hp that there should be a way for us to get half that much, a lot easier than we been fightin for it.

Thoughts - ideas?

[KTA]

No there are no bigger VE pumps. A DB roosamaster will bolt up and you can get some more flow from one of them, but nothing like from a P-pump or even a A series Bosch. As for your tractor comment I have never seen a 4cyl Prostock. Most all the Pros are 640-680cubic inch with a single turbo of over 4.25" inducer and run 5000+ rpms. A superfarm is a limited 3"x3" turbo is usually 555-620cid runs between 3500-4500rpm and makes right around 1000hp at the flywheel. These are competition use only setups, nothing that can be driven or farmed with. In the 5.9 world the best single turbo Prostock trucks are right around 1100hp because of the smaller displacment. The superstocks are 1600-1700hp and have solid engine blocks that arent intended to run more than 60 seconds. Those engines at those power levels have lots of maintnance issues and arent useable for anything but all out competition just like the tractors.
If you want a fuel screw get an AG governed P-pump then you can turn it up and down with a screw and jam nut instead of 2 screws and a fuel plate. The Ag governors are also alot smoother to drive when you have a really high flowing pump.

[seeker1056]

hmm, maybe I have the class's wrong.
I do know i have seen 4 cylinders up here in Ontario Canada.

I also have a recent article in "diesel world" about a John deere, and references to makin 2-5000 ft lbs from a 124 ci 4 cyl and one $10,000 turbo, n water

But I do defer to your better knowledge and thanx

Ok so where do I go to get a 14mm head then if yours are all sold out?

It would seem my reach for 700+ is not there without something like that for fuel supply.

Ken

[Cschafer]

For 700+ get a 913 p-pump set up and put it on. To my knowledge no one has hit 700 with a ve and I believe that KTA is the only one to keep it runnin above 600. Untill I get mine goin that is.lol

[KTA]

700RWHP is a pretty tall order even with the 14mm. I advise not to push them that hard if you desire them to last anytime, at least not until I have done some more R&D. In my personal opinion if you want 700+ which is ALOT for a dail driver you would be much better off in the long run with a modified p-pump. I know there are some 14mm's sitting on shelves perhaps someone would part with theirs. If you really want one let me know and I will ask around and see if I can come up with another.
Brian

[seeker1056]

Hi Brian

Thanx

It would be too easy to Pee-pee it.

Yes 700 is a lot. ;o) but so was each milestone you made all the way up into the 600's which no one a few years ago ever thought possible.

And given your performances, on what I consider bad - hot air, I think it is entirely do-able with some R&d on the air side.

This includes my under construction intake manifold, bigger piping, and ambient or less air temps.

You have wonderfully beat the fuel side up n won by all accounts at what - 647 hp?

So all i have to do is come up with 54 hp?

This truck will be mainly for pulling, and limited street duty.

I honestly think we can get there if we try ;o)

Yes please, I would love to see if anyone would part with thier 14mm if they arent gonna use it.

However i would qualify that with the need for people already usin it to divulge the longevity fixes that have been worked on, before hand.

I do suspect the longevity issues may have been lack of fuel supply (pressure/volume) and fuel lubricity? On my truck i already have a holley black pump and bigger lines to the pump, and will soon be changin out the fuel filter to pump lines to larger, and delete all banjo bolt fitings.

I am also usin 2 stroke oil as an additive.

I will also soon have a head finished to my own standards of head porting - (i port heads)

The last step would be a camshaft, roller rockers, etc.

However i am holdin out for the moment cuz I heard someone is workin on or has finished a complete roller cam setup. Of course will all depend on budget for now.

;o)

Thanx again

[KTA]

There have been several full roller motors for at least the past 3 years I know. You can get roller rockers, roller lifters, and roller bearings for the camshaft. All of the banjo bolts and lines has to go, it takes a total high flow system to feed these kinds of power levels. I honestly think 700rwhp is doable with a VE on #2 only, I think for shure with water meth it can be done. You are going to need alot bigger turbos than you have in your sig to do 700, even with extreme aftercooling. Is this competition use only or something you plan to drive?

[seeker1056]

Well with turbos one has t ostart somewhere, lol, and so far all i have in em is about $650 or so so easy to replace.
I will also need bigger injectors, but need to walk before runnin.
When i get to the max i plan to switch the air to air aftercooler to another water/air.
Anywya, gettin the pump n stuff ready is the main thing

Yes all competition, but the rules say I have to drive it to the track - so it will see some street duty

[seeker1056]

I have a set of new marine 370's, a set of stock sticks, a set of pod's, and a 160hp P-pump.

I could trade any or all, oron part of, a big set of sticks, and/or a 14mm head.

Dependin on whats offered parts n some cash, or direct trades?
Anybody got somethin to trade?

[Fnschlaud4620]

this is probably dumb but I figure guess I'll ask anyway

Can We run dual VE pumps like the kits for dual CP3 for the duramax and common rail?

I know that anything is possiable, just wondering if anyone has tried this or knows how to do it (KTA?)

fnschlaud4620

[Cschafer]

duel pumps are easy on a common rail since the injection is caused by an electronic injector controling timing and amount of fuel. Both pumps just feed the fuel rail to supply the injectors. On our engines the timing and amout of fuel injected is controled by the pump. To run two pumps you would have to first mount it to the engine. Then timing and throttle linkages and pump setups would have to be exactly the same and I'm not sure if that is even possible. Then you would have to y the injection lines into the injector or build your own head with another injector bore. So no I'm not sure if it is even possible but it is definently not cost affective. Would be cool to see though

[Fnschlaud4620]

I think you are right about not being cost affective, but I think I might try it for fun!

I think I will build a bracket that mounts to the 3 big bolt holes in the head above the injection pump. I will make it adjustable verticaly to tighten the belt drive from the main injection pump gear to extra injection pump. I will make the three slotted holes in it to adjust pump timing. The bracket will place the new pump directly above the main pump so the lines will not have to be altertered in length only rotated downwards.

I will have to make a belt drive system with cogged pullys @ 1:1 ratio. I believe I can get some used Jesel pullys from some guys I know. I will have to do is build a hub that will extend it out of the timing case and figure out how make a seal so oil doesn't go everywere. I think I have the means and the time to do the mounting and driving part, but I will need help on figuring out how to T the lines together.

I don't think that the throttle linkage will be a problem.

Will this be able to idle? can each pump be turned down far enough?

anyone with ideas? opinions?

thanks
Fnschlaud4620

[Begle1]

Well, if you were to make dual VE injection pumps work on a first gen, you would be promoted directly to the pantheon of the Diesel God, right next to Rudy and Clessie.

I think that the best idea for duals was to plumb them into the same injectors, only advance one of the pumps 30 degrees in relation to the other. That way they don't fight each other as much and you get two injection events per stroke. Then, if you do get it working, you find the biggest twin setup that has ever been run in order to clear up the smoke.

I don't know how you would plumb two lines into one injector... I don't think you can "T" injection lines, 18,000 PSI and all.


I'd love to help you out on that one, but I'd rather put the time into... Women. Because I don't think the two would coexist after you tried to do what your talking about.

[KTA]

You should be able to get t-fittings for the injectors from scheids 12cyl pump setup. I personally think you will have governors fighting each other and all kinds of control issues, but I have never done it so I could be wrong, but I doubt it. To my knowledge there are no engines with dual governors, you cant have 2 things trying to control the same one and have it work well if at all.

[Begle1]

Wouldn't one pump speed up the other one?

You could probably find a way to slave the governor on one to the engine RPM, or the other IP, but I'd be better of doing brain surgery than that...