How Much Frame is Enough?

[the.beard]

I just picked up an '87 W250 and was wondering how many of you fellas would trust that frame (gas 6-inch) to carry a p-pumped 12v with a 5-speed from a '95 1 ton.

All opinions are welcome.

[Tacoclaw]

I've got a '90 W250, as far as I can tell it's the same frame as a gasser truck of that era. I wouldn't sweat it unless you're planning on loading the crap out of it.

IMO that is.

[the.beard]

Is your truck a factory diesel? I read in the "chassis differences" thread that the 6 inch '90 diesel frame is heavier than the frames in the earlier gas trucks. Does anyone know how much heavier or where?

I don't plan on pulling with it or beating the Hell out of it. I might run it down the 1/8th mile for tuning a few times a year, but nothing serious.

[Sutter1stgen]

A cummins engine doesn't way much more than a big block. Think of it as adding a heavy front bumper and a heavy winch to the front. It's not like your increasing your weight by a ton only in the front.
A friend of mine converted his 75' short bed over to a ve/getrag swap. Sold it 8 years later with the factory Dana 44 under the front, and be beat the crap out of it.

Ive heard "old timer know it alls" say you can't run a 1/2 ton axel in the front with "the heavy cummins" out front, it will snap the knuckles right of once you lower it in there.

Give me a break!!!

[the.beard]

I'm not worried about the weight of the engine so much as the frame's ability to resist twist or breakage from the torque it puts out, both now and in the future when more work is done to it.

[Tacoclaw]

Yeah, it's a factory diesel. I was going more off the thought that all the body, engine, and suspension mounts are all the same. My frame has pretty severe flex issues, but it's more off-road related. I never had any issues with the engine torquing it around enough to cause any issues.

[dazedandconfused]

Well I have a 1/2 ton short bed with a Cummins and have had no issues.

[the.beard]

Yeah, it's a factory diesel. I was going more off the thought that all the body, engine, and suspension mounts are all the same. My frame has pretty severe flex issues, but it's more off-road related. I never had any issues with the engine torquing it around enough to cause any issues.

I don't see too much serious off-roading in this truck in the future, so that won't be an issue. Thanks.

Well I have a 1/2 ton short bed with a Cummins and have had no issues.

That's the kind of talk that's going to convince me to pull the trigger on this thing. I appreciate it. Now I need to figure out how much this D44 front end will tolerate before I'm forced to swap the 2nd Gen's d70...

[dazedandconfused]

My truck today.

[RCCUMMINS89]

I'm not worried about the weight of the engine so much as the frame's ability to resist twist or breakage from the torque it puts out, both now and in the future when more work is done to it.

Frames are designed to flex and twist. There are a lot of guys drag racing p pumped 12 valves in 1/2 ton frames.

[the.beard]

Based on the information shared with me here, I'm leaning towards the swap. I'll start a build thread if I commit. I've got to get my post count up so I can get into the classifieds and buy some running gear.

[Sutter1stgen]

Dana 44s are pretty stout. I wouldn't worry too much about it breaking unless you really do plan on driving the truck hard. Like I said above my buddy sold the truck with the factory Dana44 underneath it.
His cousin ran a corporate10 bolt under the front of his chevy 1/2 ton short bed swap. Normal off road use wouldn't sway me from using a half ton front axle.

[the.beard]

I live in a Powerstroke heavy area, so the occasional 4wd launch is bound to happen. My 2nd gen has an 80 rear/70 front. If it's not too much trouble, I might swap those in. Otherwise I'll sell them and buy 70/60s.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I've got no respect for the 44 even in a gas truck. I've never broken them, personally, but my brother has a pile of 44 parts and pieces behind his barn.

[the.beard]

Also, wouldn't welding some 1/2" plate to the outside frame rail stiffen it up a bit? I don't mean boxing it in, just on the outboard side, like on a second gen 1 ton.

[BobS]

I think the main reason some of the 1 ton second gen frames were plated was to prevent enthusiastic dummies from destroying them. They figured they had an engine that could be used in a medium duty truck so all they had to do was throw on a 10 foot dump body and haul 6 tons of gravel just like the medium duty trucks did. Being from the "old days" I can tell you that most of the "loaded" 1 ton dump trucks i had since the 1960's generally ran out of engine power before they ran out of frame strength. Cummins powered pick ups generally were the exception to this rule.