Chassis differences

everything but the drivetrain

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Re: Chassis differences

Postby eckscellent1 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:09 pm

So i have a 77 1/2 ton 2wd swb frame and I want to put my 92 12v into it. Will I need to change the diesel k member over to the 1/2 ton frame, or will the cummins bolt in? I'm already planning on fish plating the frame so it doesn't twist. If I bag it should I use the 3/4 ton arms? Anything else I should be concerned with.....it only going to be a sunday driver/show truck when I'm done, no more hauling for this old girl
Thanks
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby Richie O » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:48 am

I would put in the 3/4 ton front suspension. As far as the frame,,, run it. It would not be the first cummins in a 1/2 gasser chassis.
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby eckscellent1 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:31 pm

I think I might just cut down the frame to the swb......looks like less work. Putting her on airbags so the rear suspension has to be fabbed up anyways. Then I'll just change the doors and front end to the 79 and throw on the stepside
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby ahale2772 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:39 pm

found out this weekend that the brakes on an 89 250 are infact smaller than those on an 90'350 rotors are larger hubs are different, calipers are different, Pads and caliper brackets (ithink) are the same, dont know if the size of the caliper bores are anydifferent, nor do i know that the master is any different, .........but my truck still stops like crap

also the front axle shafts are the same between the 89 with 3.07's and the 90 with 4.10's and the ujoints interchange...im guessing this leads to the fact that the core of a dan60 RH drop axle is the same down to the carrier?
84 CCLB W350 project
94' W350 Dually, Diesel, Auto 1080HP/1980FTlbs
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby realest » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:11 pm

Philip over at DTR came up with these measurement so I went and measured the two axles I have. These are correct

Dodge measures the axles from backing plate mounting flange to flange.


A 53" measurement is a SRW measurement.

A C&C dually measures 55" flange to flange.

A dually axle measures 60" flange to flange.
1991 W350 Reg.Cab Dually
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby Xjeepyjx » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:52 pm

does anyone know if 72-80 front cab mounts (on the cab not the frame) are the same as 81-93? some sites say 72-80 and a few say 72-93! Thanks
-Sam
early 91 8W350 cab/chassis converted to pickup

Mechanical difficulty… can always be whipped.
-Clessie Cummins
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby dazedandconfused » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:53 pm

ahale2772 wrote:found out this weekend that the brakes on an 89 250 are infact smaller than those on an 90'350 rotors are larger hubs are different, calipers are different, Pads and caliper brackets (ithink) are the same, dont know if the size of the caliper bores are anydifferent, nor do i know that the master is any different, .........but my truck still stops like crap

also the front axle shafts are the same between the 89 with 3.07's and the 90 with 4.10's and the ujoints interchange...im guessing this leads to the fact that the core of a dan60 RH drop axle is the same down to the carrier?


I'm guessing this is for 4x4? On a 2wd the rotors on a D250 are the same size as the D350 but have larger bores for the studs to go threw. The hubs on the D350 just have bolts that hold the hub and rotor together. I'm going to take the new 350 rotors to work and drill the stud holes out in the drill press to see if I can make them work rather then buying a new set.
1983 Dodge D150 that has been repowered with a 93 Cummins/518 running gear AKA The Ugly Duck! I would much rather build them then buy them.[
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby ahale2772 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:24 am

yes I was talking 4x4
84 CCLB W350 project
94' W350 Dually, Diesel, Auto 1080HP/1980FTlbs
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby welderboy250 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:43 am

At some point between 90 and 92 they increased the size of the rear spring bolts, prob at the same time they increased the front ones
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Re: Documented 2WD automatic to 4WD crew cab frame conversion

Postby palomino » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:15 pm

BobS...
You wouldn't happen to still have those rails, I am going to be doing the swap of a 2wd crew cab long bed dually, and making it a 4wd cummins and nv4500, and want to borrow you plates if possible, don't have a bunch of room at the moment to cut up a frame to do it....Let me know....
Sam ;-)

BobS wrote:
KTA wrote:Oh and as for a 2wd to 4wd conversion it is NOT straight forward. I looked at converting my Crew to a 4wd and none of the 4wd cross member holes or shock mount holes are drilled in the frame. That means EVERYTHING has to be located exactly and drilled. There is also no hole at the back for the rear shackle mounts for the back of the front leaf springs, so more holes to cut and drill. I do need to look and see if it has the same height frame as my 92 W350 159" wheelbase Chassis Cab. I suspect it does.


Documented '83 Crew cab2WD to 4WD Brackets & Spring Mount Locations:

I just did a 2WD to 4WD crew cab frame conversion. I CHEATED on the measurements. I initially removed all of the cab frame brackets because 3 0f the 4 were broken. No surprise there. I ordered grade 5 washers from http://www.Mcmaster.com that were slightly larger than the original hole size and welded them to the top side of the brackets.

The front spring hangers are located by using the original predrilled factory holes located just behind the bumper bracket mounting holes.They share an identical frame mounting pattern with the bumper brackets and in my case the rear cab mount frame bracket mounting holes. This keeps the front axle located in the proper location in the frame. When I started to measure the dimensions from the cab frame to the front spring rear hanger location the measurements differed by almost a quarter inch between the left and right sides. The rear bracket location for the front spring is not apparently as critical as it first appears and is demonstrated by the tolerance that was acceptable on the 1992 donor frame. At this point I decided to use the original 4WD frame sections as a donor for making frame templates. I whacked the 4WD frame BEHIND the cab body mounting brackets and using a torch removed the the flat upper and lower sections leaving only the flat vertical faces of the frame. Then I ground the slag and wire wheeled the surface rust before bolting the new templates to the 2WD frame by using two of the cab bracket mounts and the front bumper bracket bolt holes.
Image

At first you need to get all of the bolts in where they are loose. Then in the transfer areas for the location of the new hole you need to use bolts to draw the template to the 2WD frame. In the shock mounting area there are two larger holes that will accept a 3/4 or 7/8 inch bolt with washers. The trick is to draw the template in close by tightening the center most bolts outward to the end portions of the bumper end and the cab end. There will be gaps because you are clamping outside radiuses to inside radiuses between the frame and template. Template bolted to the 2WD frame to locate engine crossmember mounting holes:
Image

The actual large holes for the brackets are easily drilled using a high quality bi-metal hole saw.
Image

The holes may require a small bit of tweaking using a high quality round file. The original holes are oval shaped but are located by placing the hole saw in the cab end of the oval and drilling through. Mine worked out perfectly with just a bit of deburring required using a round file.
Image

I also used a 7/16 inch transfer punch and a 7/16 inch drill bit to transfer the mounting rivet holes for the rear spring bracket and the engine crossmember. I replaced the all the rivets with grade 8 7/16" bolts and grade 5 hardened washers in conjunction with self locking nuts. There was one hole on each side of the 2WD frame that was touching one of the new holes for the new shock bracket mounting holes that I welded up on each side of the 2WD frame. This hole is the rearmost rivet hole that goes through the 2WD inner and outer mounting brackets on the frame. The other option would be to mount the bracket and add a third hole by drilling through both parts.

On the front spring hanger bracket mounting brackets there was an 1/16 inch gap between the hanger and frame because of the very slight differences between the crew frame and the 92 frame. I simply made shims that that were drilled for the hanger bolts to pass through which keep the shims in place. For me this was the easiest method for locating the new holes.
Image

Transmission crossmember brackets and mounting; 2WD automatic to 5 speed 4WD:

Also if not already noted the 4WD passenger side upper crossmember mounting bracket brace has a relief formed for exhaust pipe clearance that the earlier gasser may not have. Since I went from a 2WD automatic to 4WD 5 speed the transmission crossmember needed relocating. Again I cheated by setting the engine and transmission assembly in the frame and used the mounts to locate. What I found was there was only two of the original holes (1 0n each side) lined up. The other 2WD hole is circled in this picture. This is looking at the passenger side of the frame. F=front of frame. I mounted the crossmember using those holes and then used the crossmember as a template to the new holes using the same method mentioned earlier.
Image

Then you end up with the new circled holes for the 4WD crossmember and upper frame brace:
Image

Then I removed the engine & trans assembly and mounted the upper frame brackets to the center section of the crossmember. Then I staggered two new upper bracket holes by drilling through the frame and upper bracket for one hole and just drilling through the remaining hole that already lined up in the frame with the bracket below. Everything now fits exactly as it was in the 1992 frame. Note the exhaust pipe relief that is visible in the upper support brace for the 4WD transmission crossmember in the final picture.
Image

And as a side note, ALL of my metal cutting tools were made by Morse which held up quite well compared to Wallymart or the Harbor tools.
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby KurtzN1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:27 am

Yeah, I agree on the tools. Harbor stuff is great if you only plan on using it once or twice. Anymore, I'd invest.
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby dustin_mud » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:48 pm

Any know the wb difference between the regular cab long bed and the crew cab short bed?
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby CumminsPower59 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:57 pm

CCSB has the same wheel base as a club cab/extended cab long bed...so whatever that is ;)

Edit: RCLB = 131 in. Club cab long bed = 149 in. Crew Cab short bed = 149 in. Crew Cab long bed = 165 in.
Ike

91 W350 SRW, 3.07's, NV4500, 370's, THD LPPP, Super HX40, 2nd gen IC swap, BHAF, Isspro's, 2" lift, 285's on 3rd gen 17"'s.
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby dustin_mud » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:53 am

Damn a 18in wb diffrence, so much for the idea of swapping to a crew cab. Lol
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Re: Chassis differences

Postby rb70383 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:26 pm

Hope this is the right area.

Found this forum while looking for info on my crew. I am trying to mount a utility bed on my crew. I have heard the cab and chassis have frame to body adaptor. Anyone have one to snap a pic of or how a utility bed mounts on our frames? Is there any difference between the normal trucks and cab and chassis frames?

The box is off a 89ish Chevy. My truck is a 85 d350 crew 2wd. Converting it to 4wd diesel eventually but baby steps for now. As I don't have a diesel or front axle. Yet :)

Plan for the truck is a camping rig. Similar to a chase truck just without the race car parts. Lol. I have a build thread just getting started on RCC.
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