2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

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2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby JARR » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:48 am

Is this allowed on this site...? Im halfway to completion with this project, but theres some upcoming obstacles/rumors I need to confirm first.
•p-pump sollenoid shutoff? On my first gen its a small wire plug to the ve-pump
•wiring? With my old harness, alternator/voltage regulator and sensors. Can I use just these?
•radiator shroud? Apparently theres some clearance issues, someone mentioned swapping my "Idler assembly" over to the 2nd Gen and that will work. Idler assembly? Do they mean all pulleys or just the rad fan assembly?
•Adapter Plate/input shaft. With my old adapterplate, clutch and the stock getrag input shaft this will bolt up all the same right?
•Engine Mounts. I don't have the mounts from the 2nd Gen Frame so I'll be using my original engine mounts. Is there any durability issues here? Theoretically its all the same... right?

This is all I can think of at the moment. I've been documenting every procedure with pictures. When I'm finished(I hope), I'd like to create a step by step slideshow of this swap so others can learn from it too. I looked and looked for a thread of this nature but I havn't come across one yet. All suggestions and input are welcome. Im hoping to get this back together by the end of the week.

I'll also mention that Im acquiring a 1st Gen I/C radiator support and grille assembly from a 93' . My truck is a Non I/C 89' w250 4wd so I also need a new radiator and intercooler setup. Any suggestions on a rad and cooler?
JARR
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby Tacoclaw » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:48 pm

On the solenoid, you'll need to rig up a relay that pulls in when in the "crank" position, then you can use your normal key-on wire to hold the solenoid up.

You'll decimate your key-on hot if you try to just hook it to the pull wire, and you'll burn up the solenoid if you use a relay just hooked to the pull wire.

You can run a p-pump with a pull cable, if you want to look super manly when you park.
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby ellis93 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:06 pm

Tacoclaw wrote:
You can run a p-pump with a pull cable, if you want to look super manly when you park.


:puker:

:lol:
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby Tacoclaw » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:14 pm

Oh, and yes you should be able to just plug your electronics into the P-pump sensors. The alternators didn't become internally regulated 'till the CRs if I'm thinking right, so your plugin and VR will handle it make it work.

Worst case scenario, you could put your old sensors into the new engine if the plugins aren't the same. Unless you've got one of those "STORM" blocks and it has oddball sensor threads. Somebody else will have to confirm that, I've never messed with them.
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby Mark Nixon » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:22 pm

JARR wrote:Is this allowed on this site...?
It's definitely allowed, I've done the swap both ways, actually.
JARR wrote:...halfway to completion with this project, but theres some upcoming obstacles/rumors I need to confirm first.
•p-pump sollenoid shutoff? On my first gen its a small wire plug to the ve-pump
•wiring? With my old harness, alternator/voltage regulator and sensors. Can I use just these?

Yes, you can use all of the OEM harness and sensors (be sure you swap the temp senders), but you'll need to re-do the wiring for the fuel heater and add a "start" circuit for the P-7100 solenoid.
There are 3 wires on the P-7100 solenoid plug, and the color codes equate to:
Black= Ground.
Red= Run (hold).
White =Start.

You'll need the following:
3 separate lengths of 14 gauge wire in Black, Red and White.
3 female spade connectors.
2 loop connectors.
1 male spade connector.

Since the FSS on these trucks are "hot" while running, as well as cranking, it needs to be routed to the RED wire in the connector, with a female spade on the one end and a male spade on the other.
The BLACK wire, obviously goes to ground, with one of the loop connectors on one end, and a female spade on the other, which goes to the BLACK wire in the connector.
The WHITE wire gets the other loop on one end, WHICH GOES TO THE STARTER SOLENOID POST and the remaining female spade on the other, which goes to the WHITE wire in the connector.
This will solve the Start/Run Circuit scenario and it's 100% doable with no wire splices, JUST CONNECTORS and NO RELAY WIRING BS NECESSARY!!!

JARR wrote:•radiator shroud? Apparently theres some clearance issues, someone mentioned swapping my "Idler assembly" over to the 2nd Gen and that will work. Idler assembly? Do they mean all pulleys or just the rad fan assembly?

Depending on whether the original engine in the 1stgen was intercooled or non-intercooled, this can get tricky, but I'll use the 1STGEN INTERCOOLED as the receiver in this case:
You need the fan hub, pulley and radiator & shroud from the 1stgen.
The A/C compressor from a 1st gen INTERCOOLED (different line outlet locations)


JARR wrote:•Adapter Plate/input shaft. With my old adapterplate, clutch and the stock getrag input shaft this will bolt up all the same right?

Absolutely. You'll need the 1stgen starter, too. :D
JARR wrote:•Engine Mounts. I don't have the mounts from the 2nd Gen Frame so I'll be using my original engine mounts. Is there any durability issues here? Theoretically its all the same... right?

The OEM 1stgen mounts will work fine, 55HP, If it's a 215HP engine, will hardly even bother the stock isolaters.


JARR wrote:I'll also mention that Im acquiring a 1st Gen I/C radiator support and grille assembly from a 93' . My truck is a Non I/C 89' w250 4wd so I also need a new radiator and intercooler setup. Any suggestions on a rad and cooler?

This part actually answers some of my concerns.
With what you have on the 2nd gen engine and the OEM one you should be good to go EXCEPT FOR THE A/C COMPRESSOR AND FAN SUPPORT HUB ASSEMBLY W/PULLEY.

Mark.
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby JARR » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:09 pm

:D This is all great news guys. Thanks for the input. I have some shaft play on my getrag Im deciding what to do with. Nothing major but, it would be easy to deal with now. In the meantime I'm swapping all the goodies from my 1st gen that I'll need on the new motor, get it ready to rock and roll. The rear main on the new motor seems tight as a turtle, any tell tale signs? Its cheaper to do now right! Well Im gonna get to it. It seems everythings in check other than this fuel solenoid shutoff on the P7100. I gotta thank Mark on the detailed write-up there. Its gonna come down to that being the only challenging factor concerning the surefire operation of this monster! :salut:
JARR
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby Mark Nixon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:04 pm

The biggest thing to check on the mains is the thrust, how much the crank walks front to rear.
Since the engine is out, if you grab the balancer and work it front to rear, you really shouldn't feel any severe play.
If you do, I'd at least stick a new thrust main in it.
If the new engine is from an auto, the chances of there being any notable thrust is pretty slim.

I did miss a part on the wiring, but it's only that the fuel heater wiring will need to be spliced, but if you're creative and have the old P-pumper harness, you can make it look nearly factory.

On your getrag, if it has any deflection at the input, I'm automatically suspect of condition, it's one of those things that may be "good for a while", but time doesn't heal a getrag's wounds.

On you radiator and intercooler, a new intercooled radiator is ~$300 and if you're going to go with an intercooler, you may as well use a '99-'02 Ford Power Stroke 'cooler, or some guys here have make 2nd gen ones fit.

Some of us on here have parts that they'll sell/trade, if you need them. ;)

Mark.
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby JARR » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:22 am

I want to be sure that 14gauge wire for the pull(white) is enough to handle the load. How many amps run from the started solenoid? This "pull" wire is connected to the starter solenoid along with the usual ignition cable thats on there also right? I have a relay on my fender that's "key-on" ignition. Connecting the Red(Hold) to this relay will be ok? As far as a ground goes, a good connection to the block will do fine? Ive got a bent up 01' powerstroke intercooler(aluminum tanks) that Im bending back tomorrow, and pressure testing it. $50 I figured is a great deal if it holds. I need to decide what to do for a radiator now. The fan hub assembly I swapped over is 1-1/4" smaller than the stock one on the new motor. I don't know what options I have, all I need is the best fit(even if theres some modifying involved). I want her to stay cool, and if thats gonna cost me that little bit more that's alright at this point.(nothing ridiculous though) haha :roll:
JARR
fuel pin?
 
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby Mark Nixon » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:51 am

I screwed up on the gauge there.
The last one I did I used 12 gauge on.

The "pull" wire is piggy-backed off the starter solenoid post, not off the relay itself!
The "hold" wire is wired to the original FSS wire.
Ground can run anywhere on the block.

If you use either of the fan hubs you have (1stgen non-intercooled OR 2nd gen), you WON'T be able to run a 1st Intercooled SHROUD, as the offset is wrong.

Also, keep in mind, the depth of the blade on a NON-INTERCOOLED fan is thicker, in some cases they'll actually flex enough to take out an Intercooled radiator.

Mark.
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Re: 2nd Gen Swap Into My 1st Gen

Postby JARR » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:21 pm

Alright, its been a journey. I scrapped the powerstroke intercooler, it was a leaker. I got a second gen cooler in good shape that actually turned out pretty darn nice. Theres been alot more modifications than planned... as in welding and, I'm not a welder.. well I wasn't until I got forced into it. I got a brand new 1st gen intercooled version radiator that Im topping up tomorrow before my first drive. The biggest pain in the ass was piping up the intercooler but I'll save all that for the pictures I'll be posting soon. All Im waitin on is exhaust, any day now. For now I just got a 3" downpipe from my old setup(hacked it off). I hope she kicks over no problem... :shock:
JARR
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