BIG FUEL supply for the VE

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BIG FUEL supply for the VE

Postby stillsmokin » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:50 pm

I'm working on a fuel system for a VE, it's a street/puller system. I am running close to the EFI live dmax's and p-7100 trucks. My truck is heavily modded and actually has had the entire fuel supply system modified a year back for similar problems. Full 3/8 from inside the tank to the pump, custom application cummins piston type lift pump, and big banjo bolts are not enough so it all must go. With newly found traction it will actually pull the system pressure down too low while pulling the sled. Hello again retarded timing. This truck has a SBC 3850 comp DD (solid hub) and the NV4500 with a 1.375 input. I also have traction bars, blocked rear suspension, a short 5" stack through the hood, and a weight rack. Saturday night it overpowered the track off the line in 3rd, 4 LO with aggressive 285 75 r 16's and 3.54's. So I backed down to 1st, 4 HI crawled out of the hole, and hammered it. It smoked as hard as the P7100 trucks did and surprised everyone when it came to an all 4 spinning stop at 280 feet. I thick a little more aggressive tire might have been the ticket but the increased load would have ran the fuel pressure down even faster.

Here's what I have gathered for the system so far, 5/8 ID suction tube in the tank up to bulkhead in top of sender (my own home built vulcan). I'm thinking 1/2" or maybe 5/8" for lines and hoses (but I am on the fence), Dual CAT type fuel filter/ water seperator (even have a heater!), Aeromotive 13301 boost referenced bypass regulator, 1/2 or 5/8 return line. I am also going to work a new trick near the VE, since I've never seen it done I'm going to make sure it works before any discussions involve it.

I think I might want to run 2 different fuel pumps. I initially thought about a walbro 392 standalone or as a booster to the piston pump. Trouble with that scenario, I'm afraid at 80 GPH the walbro won't make the grade when the load is high. On the other hand, if I keep the piston pump, I'll have to run the fuel line up to the piston pump, back the the filters on the frame under the drivers seat, then the walbro would be on sort of a loop off to the side there as a booster(so if it fails the engine still runs on the mechanical pump).

I then thought that all the unnecessary plumbing might not be worth it, so then scenario 2 came to mind. The walbro as a primary and then a huge competition pump for fooling around. The other "competition pump" will flow a whopping 4.4 GPM @ 20 psi however, is not rated for continuous use (gets hot) OR TRANSPORTATION USE, thus the walbro as a primary. Both pumps would run independently of each other in this system.

Then again I could run an aeromotive A1000 pump standalone, which flows a decent amount of fuel, but it might fall short, and it's pricey.

SO GUYS WHAT SHOULD I DO? 1/2 or 5/8 lines (specify return or feed), and which pump or combination of pumps. Looking forward to some input.

[/b]
92 W250LE REG CAB, SLED PULLER, S400
93 W350LE EXT CAB, dually, 5 speed
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Postby wannadiesel » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:18 am

Putting the bypass regulator after the filter(s) will solve a lot of your problems. That way the pressure drop through the filter does not significantly lower the flow rate of the pump. My Walbro 391 setup runs 25 psi before the filter to give me 18 at the VE, and pressure will not go below 15 psi. I think with a similar setup you will be OK with the 392 and your current lines.
'93 D350 LE Club Cab dually, Getrag, 3.54 Pow-R-Lok with: DPS EDM's, HTT Stage IV/14wg, Con-FE, Snow Stage 2 water/meth, custom fuel pin, Walbro secondary fuel system.

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Postby KTA » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:52 pm

I made 627rwhp with a VE and a A-1000 and over 40psi, it supplies my fuel needs. 8)
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby bgilbert » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:27 pm

Truck pull= Aeromotive A1000. It works well on the street too. I have a 3/4ID pickup, gravity feed to the A1000. Then 5/8ID to the regulator. 3/8ID for about 12" from regulator to VE. I would use at least 5/8 throughout. Then you can just hook right up to your p-pump when you switch :twisted: . The inlet of the VE is only 1/4" so you don't need to go huge there.

The piston pump ain't gonna cut it for pulling. For the return from the regulator I use 1/2ID. For the VE and injector fuel return I've left it stock.
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Postby stillsmokin » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:22 pm

KTA wrote:I made 627rwhp with a VE and a A-1000 and over 40psi, it supplies my fuel needs. 8)


Theres a guy down the road from me a little ways who runs/ owns the Power Trip 1st gen dodge pulling truck. He not running a VE anymore, obviously. He was a pump tech at a diesel shop. He was saying that he'd had a VE to 45 psi inlet pressure on the test stand and saw significant flow gains without the front seal blowing out. He also said the housing pressure only gains say 5 psi 45-70 psi inlet pressure and even less 70-100 psi, then bang. Can I turn the regulator up past 20 PSI when pulling, and if so how much and stay safe? KTA you're the man to answer this I think.

I'm not trying to catch one of the Schieds trucks or Van Haisley, but I am getting really close to the duramax's running EFI live which are winning at the local pulls, thats good enough for me. I think the VE might be slightly underated and its cheap compared to a pxxxx. I'd like to put a run down on those dmaxs.

I have a lathe here and I'm going to bore each and every fitting that appears restrictive to get as much flow into the little rotary as possible. The inlet adapter I bought for the VE from the local hydraulics shop has around a 3/16 hole in it!
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93 W350LE EXT CAB, dually, 5 speed
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Postby BobS » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:25 am

bgilbert wrote: The inlet of the VE is only 1/4" so you don't need to go huge there.



So what would happen if you enlarge the opening? Is that possible? Otherwise it reminds me of putting a garden hose nozzle on the end of a fire hose.
BobS

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Postby KTA » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:27 am

My fuel pressure is boost refrenced, it starts at 15psi and goes as high as 50-60psi. By doing it that way I figure its no extra strain on the pump because it is using the fuel by putting it to the motor rather than just building pressure.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby stillsmokin » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:04 pm

KTA wrote:My fuel pressure is boost refrenced, it starts at 15psi and goes as high as 50-60psi. By doing it that way I figure its no extra strain on the pump because it is using the fuel by putting it to the motor rather than just building pressure.


I have boost referenced regulator here as well, Aeromotive, was thinking of having the boost reference on a engine power/valet switch. I am also going to run a fuel rail from an alcohol motor between the boost referenced bypass regulator and the fuel feed line to act as a demand volume accumulator of sorts. The VE and fuel pressure gauge will feed from the rail.

So, I heard something about a seal retainer, or will the VE's front seal hold 45 or so psi at full clip?
92 W250LE REG CAB, SLED PULLER, S400
93 W350LE EXT CAB, dually, 5 speed
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Postby KTA » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:23 am

I have a retainer on mine so the seal cant blow out. If you notice s suddeb drop in fuel pressure or your crank case filling up with fuel you will know it was too much for the seal. :wink:
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: BIG FUEL supply for the VE

Postby DTanklage » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:04 am

stillsmokin wrote:
SO GUYS WHAT SHOULD I DO? 1/2 or 5/8 lines (specify return or feed), and which pump or combination of pumps. Looking forward to some input.



i think you should put a pump case pressure gauge (0-200psi) on your truck before you do anything...

don
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