ZF S6-650 install

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ZF S6-650 install

Postby kiszka6911 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:21 am

I am considering replacing the G360 with a 6 speed, the NV 5600 seems to be a great trans, the new ZF S6-650 in the newer fords & gm's interests me. First the ford has the external cooler, both are rated for 26,000 gross and handle 570 Ft-lbs. They seem to be much less expensive to acquire and to rebuild. I have access to a wrecked 2000 powerstroke with the trans for free, I would have to buy the NV271 if its needed

According to the guys at ford-cummins.com the transfer case have the same bolt patterns (NP205 and NV271) but different output shaft spline counts.

ford-cummins has a adapter plate to mount ford transmissions to the back of the cummins.

Any comments would be great
Thanks
Anthony Kiszka
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Postby KTA » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:42 pm

You cant use the 271 as it is left hand out vs right hand for your 205. I also dont think the splines are the right size/count to hookup to your 205, so you would need to have the correct splined coupler made to make it work. The NV5600 would be the easier retrofit, or maybe the new Getrag from the 3rd gens, it seems to be a better trans than the NV5600. I know they shure shift better. 8)
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby CAJUN 93 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:29 pm

KTA wrote:You cant use the 271 as it is left hand out vs right hand for your 205. I also dont think the splines are the right size/count to hookup to your 205, so you would need to have the correct splined coupler made to make it work. The NV5600 would be the easier retrofit, or maybe the new Getrag from the 3rd gens, it seems to be a better trans than the NV5600. I know they shure shift better. 8)


just a ?, i've read on some other sites, no names please :) , that the g56 is not as strong as the nv5600. according to the overvalved experts, the g56 was a cheaper alternative to the rough shifting nv. i don't know, but i've seen the guts of a nv5600 apart in the shop and it's hard to imagine a stronger trans in a light duty truck.
93 d350 5spd 3.54-bhaf,stg iv,banks intercooler,bosch185,16cm,pacbrake,4" straight exh,pump mods,366 spring,leece-neville alt.
hers- 93 d250 auto 3.54- pump mods only
ours- 93 w350 dually, auto, 3.54. stock for now
parts 93 d350 auto, 92 d250 auto.
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Postby CAJUN 93 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:30 pm

hey, i'm not a newb anymore :D
93 d350 5spd 3.54-bhaf,stg iv,banks intercooler,bosch185,16cm,pacbrake,4" straight exh,pump mods,366 spring,leece-neville alt.
hers- 93 d250 auto 3.54- pump mods only
ours- 93 w350 dually, auto, 3.54. stock for now
parts 93 d350 auto, 92 d250 auto.
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Postby KTA » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:46 pm

Well I can say that I have helped the local Dodge dealer repair/replace quite a few Nv5600's mostly with syncro problems or a few with bad bearings. The G56's have been great since their introduction, only 1 failure that I know of soo far and that was a result of the dual mass flywheel coming apart and ripping the input shaft and bearing retainer out of the front of the trans. That is my road experience side of it, now I can tell you about sled pulling. We had a guy with a 550 rwhp G56 truck sled pulling, he made it about 30 hooks before the G56 died, he replaced it, 4 hooks later he broke it again(gear failure both times) he put an Nv5600 in and it broke the first hook, snapped the output shaft. :cry: Now he doesnt know what to do. In actuality in sled pulling running the Nv4500 in 4th gear has proven to be the strongest combo. Sled pulling certainly isnt street use and is far beyond what most people do with their trucks. I guess what I am saying is despite what people like to speculate and claim it appears to me that the G56 is everybit as capable and durable at putting the power down as the NV5600. Cajun you work in a Dodge dealer how is your warranty claims looking for the 2 trans? :P
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby CAJUN 93 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:55 pm

in 3 years i've seen one 5600 apart and no g56. that may not be very accurate though since my dealers have been in more urban environments. i would think more claims would come from farm country.
93 d350 5spd 3.54-bhaf,stg iv,banks intercooler,bosch185,16cm,pacbrake,4" straight exh,pump mods,366 spring,leece-neville alt.
hers- 93 d250 auto 3.54- pump mods only
ours- 93 w350 dually, auto, 3.54. stock for now
parts 93 d350 auto, 92 d250 auto.
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Postby KTA » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:02 pm

Ill ask our local dealer if he has the numbers. We are in cattle country with lots of hills and those guys go through truck parts like there is no tomorrow especially since everyone of them has a box and injectors on their trucks and its a competition to race their neighbors truck with a load of cattle up every mountain they come to. :roll: LOL
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby MMiller » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:14 pm

KTA wrote: In actuality in sled pulling running the Nv4500 in 4th gear has proven to be the strongest combo.


ANY trans will be stronger in the gear thats direct drive. The NV5600/G56 would be stronger in 5th gear too(gear and countershaft wise). Don't know what to say on the shaft failures.

Michael
1993 W250, 3.55, NV5600 , Con O, bosch 185's, 4" exhaust, Super 40, pump tweaks, ground pin, Smokehouse air intake, Hamilton Cam,
1985 D350, Crew Cab, 92 cummins and a 518. 47rh to be built and installed along with 3.55 LS Dana 80
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Postby KTA » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:46 pm

If I remember right the NV5600 runs power through the countershaft even in direct, thereby making it weaker than the NV4500 in direct.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby MMiller » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:47 pm

KTA wrote:If I remember right the NV5600 runs power through the countershaft even in direct, thereby making it weaker than the NV4500 in direct.


Really? I had not heard that. If thats the case, then you are indeed correct. Dunno why they would run power through the countershaft in direct drive. Kinda defeats the reasoning of towing in direct drive, for strength.

Michael
1993 W250, 3.55, NV5600 , Con O, bosch 185's, 4" exhaust, Super 40, pump tweaks, ground pin, Smokehouse air intake, Hamilton Cam,
1985 D350, Crew Cab, 92 cummins and a 518. 47rh to be built and installed along with 3.55 LS Dana 80
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Postby KTA » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:15 pm

Next time I have one of those finger smashers apart I will verify that. I do remember they have a syncro on the countershaft and I seem to recall the reason they did it was to reduce gear clatter in direct because ther isnt any counter flopping around if you are putting power through it. :roll: I may be wrong though they may still have direct on the topshaft only but I think there was more to that syncro on the conuter??? Have to find an expert. :shock:
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Postby kiszka6911 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:24 pm

More research info. On the NP 205 our trucks have the 29 spline. Ford 31 and GM 32 all shafts are internally swapable. The 205's with the higher count splines like ours have the larger output bearing making them a more stout unit. As stated one option would be get a custom sleeve 29 on one end and 31 on the other or swapping shafts. It appers that the 6 bolt circular pattern is the same from the getrag 360 to the ZF s6-650. Fordcummins.com has an adapter plate to bolt all ford transmissions to the cummins. The newer style pressure plate for 13" clutch will be required.

Hydraulic clutch would require some on the fly enginering.

For the sled pullers do you have any feelings on the ZF s6-650 durability behind powerstrokes or duramax's?
Anthony Kiszka. MI 1993 W350, 3.5" flowmaster exhaust, BD+60 injectors, OSFP, 3200 GS, westach BST & EGT. HTT Stage III, 16CM housing. BHAF, airflo elbows, Skyjacker springs, Buckstop bumpers, Firestone M/T 235-85-16 tires, PIAA fogs, H4 conversions.
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Postby KTA » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:04 pm

I hear about quality and fit problems from fordcummins, I would look into these guys
http://destroked.com/parts.shtml
I hear they make top notch stuff.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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