how tight should new clutch packs be on an a518?

[sloppy2nds000]

if i pull it ill just put in both old clutch packs, the thing worked flawlessly before i rebuilt it as a good faith effort while changing the torque converter cause it shouted uncle

but now im shouting uncle.

[DodgeFreak]

can you find a trans that works that you could just swap in??

[sloppy2nds000]

that front had 5 steels in it too, is that normal? and the rear had thicker steels than the .070 which i understood to be factory spec. is that normal too?

course i could have that backwards, but you guys get the point.

[sloppy2nds000]

cant find a local used one that doesnt need rebuilding. even if i did whats the difference? fix mine for an hour or swap in one that still needs to be opened up and inspected before use. that probably takes more time than swapping the clutch pack back.

if i do ill just keep all this new clutch crap on the shelf till spring. i dont plan to use alto reds and kolene steels in my rebuild

[DodgeFreak]

according to my atsg the front should have 4 steels 4 clutches and the pressure plate. the rear should have the pressure plate on the bottom 3 steels,4 clutches and the pressure plate.

[ellis93]

The banner Kits are kinda one size fits all. Gas diesel and cars,one Kit does it. If you buy steels then things only get more complicated. Mostly I switch and swap pressure plates to adjust clutch clearance,normally I get them tighter than spec,but leave room for movement. The only place I follow spec is the o/d clutches,even there I get them as close as I can while staying in spec.

[sloppy2nds000]

ya maybe thats what it was. 4 on the front and 3 on the rear. i was off on my count by one. but its good to know that thats how it should be. did it specify thickness of the steels by chance?

i really need an atsg for this 518 and my 4l30e. what am i holding off for?

so whats the consensus, pull the tranny and swap the packs around till they air gap properly. im really not liking that but ive reconciled with my future, and ill do it tomorrow afternoon. maybe i can get it in and out in like 10 hrs this time. so i go to bed early tonight, get a good nights sleep, but get up early to go haul snow, and get home round noon and get back to it. hot dang, i cant wait.

[sloppy2nds000]

so what do you think ellis, is this the next logical culprit for my loss of park, rev and neut? it came to me when i put the stock manual valve in and the truck strained less in park but still responded the same for the other gears. made me think that the pressure venting in park was taking some pressure off the cutch pack which might be set up too tight. so i put the manual back in and sure enough it was laboring hard in park. i fixed the detent early this morning while you were responding to me, after i finished up cleaning the vb again. just before lunch?

[DodgeFreak]

when you pulled the valvebody apart did you put the checkballs in the correct place?? I'm looking at what some of them does and one blocks line pressure from entering the rear (forward) clutch circuit when the selector lever is placed in either park reverse or neutral. I'll see if I can scan the check ball locations and the functions.

[ellis93]

Honestly....it could be the drag and other issue but not the park.
The check balls could give you hell too,like above said.
Just don't get discouraged,if it were easy,everyone would do it.
That's what an old trans builder told me,also he told me the first few would ALWAYS whip your a$$,guaranteed.

He was right too

[ellis93]

DF I got those cb locations here man
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11447&start=15

[DodgeFreak]

I think he said he got the park fixed to where it engaged.

I've had 2 out of 5 whip my a$$ one I was in a hurry and forgot the snap ring for the low reverse drum lol...the other I fought a start in second (99 47re) replaced the gov solenoid with the "updated and better" borg gov solenoid and had no gov pressure thought it was faulty took it back replaced it with another new one no gov pressure, put a oem gov solenoid out of a spare valvebody and it worked and is still working flawlessly.

[DodgeFreak]

Sorry ellis I didn't know it was a sticky already lol.

[BC847]

. . . . Just some notes from working on my mess. I had a couple of toasted clutch discs and in trying to remedy it, we talked about this stuff.

Dave,
How many count clutch pack is that one? And where in the pack was the steel that warped? How many miles since you put the transgo shift kit in?
Your front clutch was definitely on the way towards problems, the frictions don't show signs of problems yet, but they would have. I know I mentioned it before, but my last transmissions suffered from a front clutch failure, everything else look like brand new with the inking on the friction surface still visible on the other clutches.

I talked with Dave Goerend about how it could have happened in depth and there are several factors that can contribute to that problem. I had .100" of unit end play, which is excessive. That caused the drum's oil port to ride almost on the sealing ring. Previous builder had put a 6 element drum in there [dummy], I told him about it and even after 2 years he gave me enough parts and then some to rebuild another trans.
Another problem Dave mentioned was with the valve body(something with aftermarket manual valves) and how the front clutch can become pre-charged with oil and just drag the clutch enough to heat it up.

@ JD: Talking about those heated plates . . . . .


In going through the valve body . ... One thing the TransGo folks have you check is the positioning of the spool valve worked by the rooster-comb. When in Park, the first inboard valve should just be in the partition. I adjusted that back when I first put in the kit. Checking it this go round, I found that by rotating the rooster-comb back and forth, and bringing it back to Park, things were positioned correctly. BUT! There's enough slack in the interface of the rooster-comb and the spool-valve itself to allow the valve to back out without moving anything else. Not much, but enough to allow flow. I fixed that again.

I need to check the flow schematics to see if that channel feeds the front drum. If so, it may have been dragging.




Reference STEP5:

[sloppy2nds000]

ya guys i did get the park pawl to properly work with the detent and drum. so park is now functioning properly, i think it was a tension issue from all the drag, but i dont know. i pulled it out, inspected it, cycled it a dozen times and it was fixed. so who knows about what was really happening there.

with the fairbanks kit you drill that 3/64 hole for the converter lube too, and the manual valve in step 5 there is spot on, even with the end play of the shaft to comb arm, the end is only .020, so the vane stays in the land and only protrudes into the cavity about .014. it looks identical to the picture there.

all the check balls are and where in their proper locations in both sections of the valve body. 7 balls in the top section and 1 ball in the middle section. the directions were not as nice as the transgo directions but they were still easy to follow.

my old front clutch pack was not badly worn, the fibers still had their cross hatching and compared to the new fibers they appeared to be barely worn. the front steels showed signs of a little heat, but had a lot of glazing. which was why i replaced them. the rear clutch pack showed more wear on the frictions, but no heat on the steels, just glazing.

is it ok to scuff the steels with emery cloth or sand paper to remove the glazing? i used to do that to my dirtbike clutch when i couldnt afford to buy new steels. it worked great. ive got some 2000 grit sand paper that i used to polish my center section support, that might take the glaze and heat marks down without scuffing the surface. or i could go buy whatever i may need to make the whole thing work in what ever combination i configure.
but im leaning towards putting the old front pack back in and checking the gap on the new rear to make sure its within spec

though ive been anxious to get the truck back on the road. ive taken my time with this whole process, been very thorough, and 2x 3x checked my progress.

i plowed with my buddies truck yesterday, and today ive got family stuff to do, so i havent torn it back apart yet, but theres a brake in the weather for a couple days so hopefully ill get i started this afternoon and have it all squared away tomorrow. but who knows.