Can cast iron be welded?

[dpuckett]

I have a Getrag with a nice silver-dollar sized hole in the side of the case, near the reverse idler. Apparently what happened, is the pocket bearing gave way, and instead of parking it when it started to make a funny noise, the kid kept driving it. A bearing roller got stuck between the reverse idler and the case, putting a hole in the case. The hole isnt in any area where structural integrity would be comprmised (it isnt like Cade's, where the rear of the case came off). I am having trouble finding a good case to replace it, and am getting antsy to get the truck roadworthy. I have read about heads and blocks being welded and run just fine. It seems that with lots less pressure, a welded patch on a tranny would work as long as it holds fluid. I do realize welding cast isnt like welding mild or stainless steel, and that the person doing the repair needs to be VERY skilled at his craft to get it right.

Whatcha all think?

Daniel

[gharger]

We use to braze up old cracked Harley Knuckle heads. Maybe brazing on a cast iron case would work.

[oldcool90]

I have a Getrag with a nice silver-dollar sized hole in the side of the case, near the reverse idler. Apparently what happened, is the pocket bearing gave way, and instead of parking it when it started to make a funny noise, the kid kept driving it. A bearing roller got stuck between the reverse idler and the case, putting a hole in the case. The hole isnt in any area where structural integrity would be comprmised (it isnt like Cade's, where the rear of the case came off). I am having trouble finding a good case to replace it, and am getting antsy to get the truck roadworthy. I have read about heads and blocks being welded and run just fine. It seems that with lots less pressure, a welded patch on a tranny would work as long as it holds fluid. I do realize welding cast isnt like welding mild or stainless steel, and that the person doing the repair needs to be VERY skilled at his craft to get it right.

Whatcha all think?

Daniel

Daniel cast can be welded, at our shop we stick weld cast,but it can be brazed.

[PToombs]

Usually cast has to be preheated to weld, then you use bronze rod, reverse polarity. I have brazed it myself with good luck. Hardest thing is going to be brazing a thinner patch in there. Thin stuff will heat faster than the case. Not a real bad job though.

[burnt_servo]

a old welder at our mill showed me this years ago , and it has never failed me .

use a high nickel arc welding rod , set the welder up so that 60 percent of the heat is in the rod / 40% is in the piece being welded ( can't remeber if this is straight or reverse polarity , i always get the 2 mixed up ) .

get everything in place , and put down a decent tack weld ..... let it cool till a leather glove no longer smokes when touched for about 5- 10 seconds .
put down another tack weld ontop of the first one . repeat

after 3 or 4 tack welds , move to another portion of the weld , and repeat

after several tack welds , let the whole thing cool down for 1/2 to 1 hour ...

DO NOT COOL WITH ANY LIQUID AT ANY TIME .

take your time , and if it takes 3 or 4 days to complete the weld .... that is how it takes .

i've welded all sorts of cast items , mostly manifolds , with no problems at all .

[Cschafer]

I have never had a problem welding cast with a mig welder. I preheat it with a propane torch, weld it up and never quench it, in fact I've been told to put a heat blanket over it to cool it even slower. I think it welds fine and never had a problem. I was thinking about welding up my getreg and I would of if I didnt have an nv 4500. I would certainly weld up a hole behind the reverse idaler. Good luck.

Cade

[CumminsPride]

If it's not in an area where strength is an issue, why not use a block patch kit? I've personally seen quite a few old tractors with plate steel and a gasket bolted over a hole in a cast block. At least over the crank case anyhow.

[dpuckett]

Cummins Pride -elaborate, please. Are you talking about a piece of plain plate steel over the hole? It would save me having to get a new case, if not any money in the long run.

DP

[cummins king]

if your really talented you can weld cast and not braze it, i dont know anybody that talented but thats what i heard

[KTA]

I have nickel welded cast several times. When my exhaust manifold shrunk and broke the ears off my original cylinder head I welded them back on with it still in the truck the day before Scheids. The next day I won the manual class drag racing. It lasted for 2 years and was still holding when I switched to my worked over cylinder head. I did switch to an ATS manifold shortly after Scheids that year so it wouldn't break the ears again.

[CumminsPride]

Yeah DP, They use a piece of plain steel (approximatley 1/8" or less) and grind a shiny surface around the hole, the same size as the plate. Then drill the plate around the outer edge, like a bolt on cover or inspection plate. Then drill and tap the case. Seal with a piece of cork gasket sheet cut to size and bolt cover on. You're done. I've seen 3 olivers that had thrown rods out the crank case. They were all mended with this method. Cause we all know, once a piece of cast becomes obsolete, they are much harder to find. These tractors are all still running on the same patched blocks as far as I know.

[dpuckett]

Oh cool. I may give that a try first, as we have all kinds of scrap and I can drill and tap a hole just fine.
Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

DP

[bloodhound51]

yes cast iron can be welded or brazed with good results.
brazing is the easiest and its actually quite strong.
if you want to arc weld it you need a 7018-h4r or nickel enriched electrode. use it with the machine set on DCEP so the heat is in the rod and not in the base metal.
preheat the piece to be welded to atleast 500 degrees F
then complete the weld fully and let it cool very slowly
It really depends on how much carbon is in the iron. more carbon = harder to weld.

[dpuckett]

I got it further apart, and found that the hole for the input shaft bearing/race is wallowed out enough to allow 1/32-1/16 up & down/ side-side play in the race. It could be wear in the race, but I doubt it. Between that, and the hole, I'm just buying some core parts and going to assemble them from there.

-The nose cone was split in 2 pieces- one piece is still in the bellhousing.
-5th gear has about half its teeth
-Chunks out of the reverse idler gear
-rear counter shaft bearing slid off when I removed the snapring.
-Bits and pieces of bearings, synchros, and God-knows-what-else inside the case. I'd have to get it hot tanked before I attempted to reassemble it.

Shift top is in good shape though. How/ why the kid drove it as far as he did is beyond me. To say this thing is just shot is an understatement. I need a Getrag Last Leg award of some sort, for I drove it about 150ft to unload and park it.

DP

[cummins king]