Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Does it have spark? And other questions...

Moderators: Greenleaf, BC847, Richie O

Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:33 am

Hi all,

So I am working through this new truck getting it at least somewhat reliable. First night I drove it to school and got to deal with burned up headlight switch at midnight after a long evening of studying. Decided to get rid of the headlight pull switch all together and just put toggles in. Headlights and everything work great now, but when the running lights are on, the turn signals don't work. They try to work, but don't quite make it there. Is this a known issue that I have overlooked something/hooked something up incorrectly? I'm new to all this wiring stuff...

Thanks!
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby BILTIT » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:44 am

I thought only canadian trucks had daytime running lights?
Derek B.
2003 QuadCab, Tater 62/65 341cw, Smarty Touch SW9, Full Billet trans.
91.5 W250, coolertubz, HE351CW, PS IC, Alcans, GVOD, Valair DD, bags, crossover.
1974 Pontiac Ventura,best of 11.97 at 112 so far.
Aluminum heads and roller cam on the way.
User avatar
BILTIT
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:29 pm
Location: Lloydminster, Saskatchewan

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:31 am

Well, by running lights I meant the ones that only come on when you pull the headlight switch to the first notch (tail, cab, side, etc).
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby BILTIT » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:06 am

ah ok, you mean the park/marker lights.
Derek B.
2003 QuadCab, Tater 62/65 341cw, Smarty Touch SW9, Full Billet trans.
91.5 W250, coolertubz, HE351CW, PS IC, Alcans, GVOD, Valair DD, bags, crossover.
1974 Pontiac Ventura,best of 11.97 at 112 so far.
Aluminum heads and roller cam on the way.
User avatar
BILTIT
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:29 pm
Location: Lloydminster, Saskatchewan
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:33 pm

BILTIT wrote:ah ok, you mean the park/marker lights.


Ok, well then those things. After driving it a bit more I also noticed that the turn signal indicators on the dash light up when the marker light switch goes on. And like I mentioned before, the signals try to work (as in, they kind of flutter a little bit then stop). They work just fine when the marker lights are not on.

I guess I just need to spend some more time digging around in the wires or something.
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby matthewh » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:28 am

Sounds like there's either a ground issue, or a back feed issue. I noticed it had a flatbed in a vid you posted. I'd start with that wiring and go from there.

Do the blinkers work at all? Do they work the same, or does one blink, one doesn't? Which indicator lights up when you turn the marker lights on?
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Boyne City Michigan
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:41 pm

matthewh wrote:Sounds like there's either a ground issue, or a back feed issue. I noticed it had a flatbed in a vid you posted. I'd start with that wiring and go from there.

Do the blinkers work at all? Do they work the same, or does one blink, one doesn't? Which indicator lights up when you turn the marker lights on?


Thanks matthewh. The flatbed has been completely rewired from scratch recently, with new wires all the way from the stock connectors near the back of the frame.

It wasn't an issue (I don't think, but I really didn't have enough of a chance to get used to it to know for sure) until I pulled the headlight switch and put toggles and relays in place (after the headlight switch went TU). One toggle for headlights, one for tail/marker lights. Now when the tail/marker lights toggle is flipped, both turn signal indicators on the dash come on (not blinking), and turn signals will not actuate. They almost try to work, but they don't actually work. By that I mean they kind of dim on and off (the actual turn lamps on the outside of the vehicle, and the arrows on the dash).

Without the tail/marker lights on, turn signals work as they should. I also put one of the "heavy duty" flasher relays in place (the clear ones you can actually see a coil in).

The emergency flashers would work at any point in time, until I tried those today. Now they do not work at all.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby matthewh » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:27 pm

Sounds like when you toggle on the marker lights, your back feeding the blinker system. Possible chance you toggled the blinker system instead of the marker system.

You have LED lights or regular bulb lights on the flat bed? With the heavy duty flasher unit and LED's there's not enough of a load on the blinker unit to blink properly.

Another possibility is you have a failed blinker/marker bulb that's causing the issue.

Only time I had back feed issues was on the rear light connection, the rubber had cracked and the connection was loose. Lights off, worked fine, lights on, dimly lit the left side, and barely blinked. Was on a '78 W250, but the wiring is almost identical to the 1st gens
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Boyne City Michigan
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby PToombs » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:29 pm

Definitely a bad ground. The dash signals light with the parking lights because the parks are grounding thru the signal filaments of the bulbs. With the parks on the signals can't ground. Then with the parks off the signals ground thru the parks. I would make sure there is a good ground circuit from the taillights to the frame and make sure the frame is grounded to the battery well. It may be the front doing it, but I'd bet the rear is the problem because you just redid it.
To test it see if you can run a wire from the ground inside the tail light to the battery negative. That should make it work if it's a bad ground in the back.
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
User avatar
PToombs
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 11129
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:13 pm
Location: Syracuse NY. Snow central!
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:51 pm

Thanks guys! I will give this grounding thing a shot and report back. Much appreciated.

As of right now I believe the system is grounded through the stock four-prong connector near the rear of the frame. We cut those connectors off and put new ones in because the previous owner had totally hacked everything up for their trailer lights (there is romex involved, not sure what else to say). All the lighting wires go through these connectors..

I don't know if it matters, but almost all of my lights are china LEDs now. Turn/brake/marker/dash/gauge. I also went through that nice write up over on DTR about pulling the cluster apart and putting duct tape on stuff. Changed everything to red LEDs in there since I no longer have a dimmer switch and red's a little easier on the eyes.
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby PToombs » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:48 pm

In a stock system there is a black ground wire with an eye on it that bolts to the inside of the frame on the drivers side between the crossmember and the rear of the frame.
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
User avatar
PToombs
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 11129
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:13 pm
Location: Syracuse NY. Snow central!
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:14 pm

Thanks Pete. I'll look for that. Sounds like that could be the root cause because we used the connector for ground because one of the leads had continuity to the frame with everything off.
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby swank » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:00 pm

Also, here is a pic of what's going on under there. The original connector got clipped and replaced with a four prong Painless connector. When I got under there to check stuff, I noticed there are only two wires coming out of it (probably set up for tail and brake/turn), and I'm assuming that is incorrect? Should be three wires (marker, brake, turn)? And a separate ground? (and yes, the trailer/romex stuff is going to get redone separately…)

Image

If anybody is aware of a walk through for something like this already written up, feel free to link. I've searched and didn't' find anything.

Also, Pete, I couldn't find that ground you were talking about.
truck
User avatar
swank
Administrator
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: boise, id
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby matthewh » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:28 pm

Should be 4 wires going to the back, as they (Dodge) would have grounded the lights either to the body or the frame right by the lights.
You should have a wires for:
Left turn indicator/Brake
Right turn indicator/Brake
Reverse lights
Running lights.
Dont know of any prewritten threads or links, but lemme dig threw my '93 wiring diagrams and see what colors there suppose to be.

*Edit*
If I read the schematic right the taillights share a common ground that's on the pass side frame
Wire colors are as follow
Violet/Black: Reverse/Backup lights
Dark Green/Red: Stop/Left turn indicator
Brown/Dark Green or Brn/Yellow: Stop/Right indicator
Blk/Yellow: Taillights
These should be the colors that ran to the back factory plug. The chart listed a grey wire, but it was used as a shared ground on the tailight side of the plug, that coincided with the shared black that attaches to the frame
These are for standard trucks. If it was originally a cab/chassis, there wasn't a wire for reverse lights. Duallys had a couple extra wires for the center clearance lights, but the colors listed were the basic needed.
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Boyne City Michigan
Top

Re: Relaying headlights/running lights, small problem

Postby PToombs » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:01 pm

After looking at that pic, I think you need to add a ground or make sure the light is grounded somehow because of the 2 wires going to the light, tail light and stop/turn. I'm guessing you don't have a reverse light on it?
My truck is a '92, and I'm almost positive there is a ground eye on the DRIVERS side into the frame. That being said, my '93 FSM is different than what Matt is saying, and shows the ground is in the cab, not on the frame. Should be a 4 wire plug on each side of the truck to the tail lights. For reference I'm on Sheet 79 and 80 in the FSM.
For a sweptline box, truck side, shows a black which is the ground going back thru the firewall for a ground. On the left side it's,
violet/ black for back up light,
black/ yellow is the tail light
dark green /yellow is the left signal
On the right side the only difference is the right signal is the brown/ yellow.

Now on the tail light side of the plug, both sides show green as the ground for both the tail/ turn and the back up lights.

Hope this helps some Dave!
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
User avatar
PToombs
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 11129
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:13 pm
Location: Syracuse NY. Snow central!
Top

Next

Return to Electrical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests