Intake heater manifold not working.

[284]

At start up, the lights I "wait" or whatever, on the dash go on, but no "clicks" that before signalled my intake toasters were warming up the air.

Is there a relay or something that's not working?

Gratzi.

[Ace]

You mean the wait to start light never goes out, or the grid heaters never come on?

[284]

The dash lights go out--too quickly mind you.

But the heaters never come on.

gratzi.

[Ace]

There's a few things that could be going on there. I'd start by testing the air intake temp sensor. It's the forward of the two sensors in the manifold, just behind the intake tube. It should have continuity when warm, open when cold.

Always do the easy stuff first.

[284]

Always do the easy stuff first.

I agree...and also usually cheaper.

On an old jeep I had, I rebuilt the rochester carb. Driving down the road, the thing went kaput. I figured I needed to get another carb as I didn't do it right. Right before I was going to go to a store and get one, I stuck a stick down and into the gas tank...."ping, ping, ping". It was empty.

[284]

OK.....as the world turns.

Gotten colder out and whenver it's defintely colder, say 50 degrees, the "thunk" of the toaster working does it's stuff.

However, when it's probably about 60 degrees plus, "wait" light comes on, but no toaster action.

Hmmmm.....

[Ace]

Sounds like it's working fine.

[284]

Ace,
Thanks for checking back in.
Initially, it would make sense that things are working fine, the way they're supposed to. If that were the case, then why all the other times, when it's clearly warmer, the toaster had come on, only to not come on and resulting in hard starts unless it got way down (relatively) in temps?

That's what changed. Now, at each start up, if it's cool, but not cool enough for the toaster to turn on, I get white smoke and rough idle until it warms up. If it's not cool, I get a dump of unburned fuel out the pipe. Never had either one before.

If I plug it in, it starts right up like it used to...

I dunno. Sometimes I think logic should be where there is none.
Sometimes I think this truck is quite the mixed blessing. Mebbe it's revenge of the other one I had.

[Ace]

Honestly, I don't really know. There's two sensors there in the manifold that basically control what happens with the Grid heaters and KSB for cold starting and smoke reduction after cold startup. That's why I initially suggested testing that. It wouldn't hurt to pull them out , inspect, clean and test.

I decided a long time ago that Dodge installed too many electronic devices and controls on my truck and have been slowly working over the past two years to eliminate them. I have no shutdown solenoid, the grid heaters and relays are gone and the KSB is on a switch. If I can ever figure out how to get the speedometer to work without the PCM that will be gone too and my truck will be almost entirely manually controlled.

That's my solution.

[284]

Once again, thanks for the reply.
So how do you do a cold start? It's a good idea to yank and clean, 'specially after the dirtclod that owned it before me. I'm also "the more mechanical under my control the better" type of guy. THis is why I say they stopped making jeeps in 1971.

What's a KSB?

[PToombs]

KSB is the initials of the german word for the cold start advance. I can't spell it, let alone say it.

[Ace]

Kaltstartenbeschlugen or some such. Wanna posted it on DTR a couple years ago. It's one of the electrical connections on the injection pump. Activates a solenoid that advances timing like Pete said. I'm waiting to see how it starts without the heaters when it gets really cold. So far the only difference I see at near freezing, which it was this morning, is it takes the starter an extra half second or maybe two complete revolutions of the starter, instead of the instant flick of the switch it was with the heaters.

I view those grid heaters as more of a risk than anything else in cold weather. If it's not gonna start for some reason, all they will do make sure the battery dies quicker and you'll get fewer chances to fix the problem and get it started. In the case of a marginal battery, they will kill it before you even get a chance to crank at all. There may be a point at some extreme low temperature where it really needs them, and if so I intend to find it. At least to whatever extreme we normally get here, maybe -10F.

[284]

LOL.
Leave it to them scrappy germans to come up with a 42 letter word for something.

So, is there a way to bypass all the "schtuff" and have it come on when I push a button? Ditch the sensors and stuff and direct wire it w/a switch interrupt?

Grazti.

[Richie O]

I have started my 89 at very low temps ( 0 ) F with out letting grids warm. ( Turn key with no delay ). She would buck and miss but always go. That was with truck unplugged. I have never had to plug it in no matter how cold it gets. I see 15 below a few nights per year. My 97 on the other hand , starts like crap cold or should I say won't start at all unless plugged in.

[Ace]

So, is there a way to bypass all the "schtuff" and have it come on when I push a button?

Sure, just re-wire it to switches in the cab on the dash somewhere. The KSB doesn't take much current. I have a 5 amp fuse on it, seems fine.

The way I did the grids was just complete removal and replacing that piece with a new spacer with holes for water injection nozzles. Seemed like a much more practical use for something there. Pulled out the relays and taped up the ends of all the electrical connections. Pulled out the sensor and replaced that with a half inch plug.

I'm only two things away from removing all the original wiring from the engine compartment: Speedometer and alternator. I figure I'll upgrade the alternator to a heavier unit and re-do all that wiring and pull the rest of the old stuff out if and when that becomes necessary due to a failed alternator. Speedo I still haven't figured out, because it goes through the PCM. I suspect it's just a pass-thru but gotta figure out what pins it's on without frying something else.