fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

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fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:12 pm

Hi all-
I read on the web that a fellow just used the Super duty sensors and they screwed right into the holes in the cummins block.....
I got Ford oil pressure (switch), oil temp and water temp (same sensors on ford)So far the threads and diammeters are not the same. What I think is the oil temp sensor hole (just behind the power steering pump body) is a 1/8 pipe thread. The Ford
temp sensor is about 5/8 and a pipe thread (3/8 pipe maybe- definitely bigger)

I think I remember the hole in the back corner for water temp is bigger- but I havnt unscrewed it yet.

The oil pressure sensor (ford) is a non-pipe thread with an o-ring at the base. I was thinking of putting it on top of the
oil filter adapter.(which is 1/8 pipe.

Is there an easy solution here that I am missing ????? I have only found the 2 holes that communicate with engine oil
as possible sensor positions...... is there another somewhere else I havnt noticed ?

Any thoughts ?
Tim
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby PToombs » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:59 pm

Pretty sure the port where the dodge oil pressure sensor is by the power steering pump is a metric hole. You could get an adapter at a hydraulic shop to go from 1/8th pipe to the ford sensor, and the same with the other sensors. Remove the plugs you want to put the sensors in, then take the sensors and the plugs to the hyd shop and tell them you need to put this sensor in the hole this plug came out of.
pete

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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:03 pm

Does the cummins have both a oil pressure and oil temp ? I was thinking the sensor behind the PS pump was temp----
but the business end of the sensor looked more like pressure...... I should be able to look in Genos catalog and see what the
sensors look like.... to identify them.....

Currently I have a pretty long rubber hose (stock dodge I believe) running from the upper rad neck to the top of the water pump
snout- I could cut out some of that hose and insert 2 inch stainless tube and add a welded-in fitting to match the threads of
the ford water temp fitting. However I would think the sensor would be better on the other side of the thermostat so you could see
the temp before the thermostat opens...... which I would think would be some where over in the block somewhere ? not sure
how far I need to go ......
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:21 pm

I just remembered- after looking at a google sensor diagram/drawing of the 6bt-------
I remember seeing a pretty big thread-in plug (female allen head ) screwed into the water neck housing- the part
you take off to get at the thermostat....... the diagram shows a water temp device there---- that should work !

They also show the device behind the power steering pump to be a "oil pressure switch" - not an analog pressure
transducer (electrical pot). The oil pressure "thing" I got to go in a ford powerstroke is also just a switch too.....
I did NOT see on the diagram anywhere showing a regular oil pressure sender like gassers have. Did they(dodge) not come with
an oil pressure meter stock ? Is that something seen as not needed on diesels ?

Just found an analog (looking) output sender for oil pressure used in Marine 6bt engines. Its a big drum with a
tiny looking pipe thread on the end.... looks like it would fit in either hole- it is sierra brand #OP24891 - which I
think is NAPA marine parts. what I don't know is if the resistance range is the same as whatever the powerstroke had.
It looks like the oil pressure sender that my old ford gasser in-line 4.9 had in it. Somewhere I saw a diagram of all
the fors powerstroke sensors - and each sensor showed a graph of output voltage vs. the measured variable. I think
I saved it somewhere ! :-) hard part is finding it ------
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby PToombs » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:31 pm

The cummins only has oil pressure, not temp.

There are 2 ports in the top of the head above the thermostat housing, either will work for water temp. 1 is usually the heater hose port. Depending on what the engine is used in there may be a sender, a plug, or heater hose barb.
pete

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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:04 pm

I think I remember a threaded plug about 3/4 inch. I will go look !
I wont worry about oil temp if dodge and/or cummins didn't see fit to monitor it. I cant think of where it could be accessed
short of drilling into something somewhere like the filter adaptor or the oil pan.

Getting excited to try driving it on the road soon !

Tim
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:45 pm

I have 2 big allen head plugs- one points up and the other is down behind the alternator and and faces outward.
I tried unscrewing the top one- which would have been ideal for the sensor- 3/8 allen - it was starting to strip out the
flats in the plug- so I guess that one isn't coming out. The other one - I cant get to without removing the alternator-
and it may be just as locked in as the top one. don't want to have to take the alternator and belt off----
(especially for nothing--) I made a stainless 2 inch pipe for the bottom rad "hose". It will be pretty easy to remove
that and weld in a stainless pipe fitting to screw the ford water temp sensor into. I could add a piece of pipe on the upper hose- but I figured just use the lower one so I don't have to add 2 more clamps to the system.......

Probably make a converter piece for the oil pressure sensor.

( FYI- found out that Ford is really cheesey - the oil pressure sensor is nothing but a 7 psi switch- though they make it appear
in the dash that it is an analog indicator. Same with voltage. geniuses at ford again ! )

Tim
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby PToombs » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:25 pm

Tim, lower the anti freeze level and try heating the plug with a large torch, then let it cool. It should screw right out after that. I don't think you want the sensor in the bottom hose, it will only show you the temp coming back from the radiator. The engine could be overheating and the bottom hose may be a nice 90 degrees!

As for the cheesy switch, dodge does that now too. The oil pressure sender is an on/ off switch, but the computer runs the gauge. It uses an algorithm of the switch on and the engine temp to show you the pressure you want to see. When the engine gets hot it lowers the gauge a little because that would be normal. :roll:
pete

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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby Gots_a_sol » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:46 pm

I just pulled the factory dodge water temp sensor out of the head (back drivers side corner, 3/4" npt I believe) and used some reducers to fit the factory ford piece.

Same for oil pressure sendor (in the block next to the power steering pump), although that one I had to adapt up from 1/8" npt to whatever the ford sensor was.
-Joe

00 Excursion - 12v/nv4500, he351cw, 5x12s, 366 spring, THD piston pump, 4" intake/exhaust
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby jethro » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:09 pm

Heating the plug there with a torch just flat scares me ! ( don't want to pull defeat from the jaws of victory- I do that
sometimes if im not careful,,,,,)
I guess I am forgetting that the dodge water sensor is back in the rear corner and I have that in just hand tight from when it was on the stand- so I know that one I can turn out easy. I will just have to crawl up the back side of the engine/tranny to reach it !

Would a REAL oil pressure sensor be of any use ? would it be worth the trouble to add an aftermarket one ?

I am thinking I need a fuel pressure, egt and boost as aftermarket....... maybe an oil temp ? (real one)

going to make a brass converter for the oil pressure once I figure out what thread that is that ford used !

Tim
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby dazedandconfused » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:22 am

DCS and Destroked sell the adapters to use the Ford sensors in the block.
Big Andy
1983 Dodge D150 that has been repowered with a 93 Cummins/518 running gear AKA The Ugly Duck! I would much rather build them then buy them.[
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby CumminsPower59 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:49 am

jethro wrote:Heating the plug there with a torch just flat scares me ! ( don't want to pull defeat from the jaws of victory- I do that
sometimes if im not careful,,,,,)


No one said you had to go white hot on it, just some good, even heat will do the trick.

Put your purse down, heat it up and twist 'er out :mrgreen:
Ike

91 W350 SRW, 3.07's, NV4500, 370's, THD LPPP, Super HX40, 2nd gen IC swap, BHAF, Isspro's, 2" lift, 285's on 3rd gen 17"'s.
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby PToombs » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:06 pm

Ike, screw that if the one in the back is only finger tight! Why go to all the hassle? ;)
pete

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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby CumminsPower59 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am

Because it is nice to be able to purge the cooling system of air if need be ;)
Ike

91 W350 SRW, 3.07's, NV4500, 370's, THD LPPP, Super HX40, 2nd gen IC swap, BHAF, Isspro's, 2" lift, 285's on 3rd gen 17"'s.
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Re: fummins oil and water temp sensors ?

Postby PToombs » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:17 pm

Ummmm, Helloooooooo, jigglers in the thermostat? :lol: Most of the time when I am working on my truck it's in front of the garage and the front is about a foot higher than the back because of the hill. I have never had a problem with getting air bound.
Now that I have bragged about it the next time it will screw up on me. ;)
pete

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