Diesel 700R4

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Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:58 pm

Getting ready to have the 700R4 rebuilt that I'm swapping into my M37 project. Running a stock 6.2l diesel, except for a slightly turned up pump. Running the stock NP-200 divorced t-case, and stock axles with 5.83 gears and 36in tires. Truck weighs roughly 6,000 lbs

Other than basic steels and clutches, what else should I have replaced, or better yet, what's prone to being crap on these trans. I know of the TCC solenoid, but what else should I look at being replaced? Do these trans benefit from a shift kit, and extra steels and clutches as well? What about a different/better converter? Who makes a good rebuild kit, who should I stay away from?

Is this something I can rebuild myself with a good FSM and no special trans tools, or should I pay the guy down the road who does it for $300 and uses Raybestos rebuild kits. (Actually have a local guy who rebuilds trans for cheap, no warrenty, but so far my buddies has held up, 10k miles and going in a stock 6.2l K5)

I don't know the mileage or history of the trans, as I bought it from a pick and pull.

Basically, if you were building a 700R4 to put behind a 6.2l, in a somewhat heavy truck, with tall gears and mild trail use, how would u build it.

Thanks guys
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:33 am

The absolute worst thing about building a 700.....I can't stress this enough....is the throttle valve assembly in the valve body. If you sneeze around the bore or valve the damn thing will stick and you'll have no upshifts. It'll piss you off....trust me

I'd stick with the raybestos high energy clutches, a Zpac for the forth gear clutch,a raybestos high energy 2/4 band (no kevlar,front drums wear bad from them) and probably the most important thing would be the sun shell/reaction shell (you'll want the beast sun shell,I know funny name,it'stwice as thick)

You also want to keep things simple on the shift Kit thing......buy a b&m kit. Very simple and quick....also gives crisp shifts and leaves the rest of the valve body alone.....no headaches.

As far as splurging goes......I have always liked the bigger boost valve for the pump (mo psi) ,13vain pump rotor(more fuild volume),and a 2/4 Corvette servo (mo clamping force,crisp 2nd apply/stronger 4th gear holding),last but not least the Throttle valve plunger and sleeve Kit(prevents forced 4/3 down shift,holds the forth gear for mor peddle travel,best upgrade ever for the 700 trans)
One other thing you might consider....5pinion front and rear planets.....that's a splurge and a half and not really needed unless you figure on having either 800HP or towing some massive weight....the factory 4 pinion will work fine. ;)

Honestly there's lots of stuff to do to one of these trans. They are honestly a very weak trans in stock form but can be built into a brick schit house with the right parts
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:37 am

Thanks Ellis, I'll do the basic upgrades now, and worry about the other upgrades as time and $ permits. Do these trans work well with tractor hydro oil like the A518's do?

What about converters? Stock one good enough, or is there a good aftermarket one?
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:38 pm

I haven't heard of anyone running hydraulic fluid in one but I probably wouldn't. These transmissions are piled up with torrington(sp) bearings.....not the thrust washers that the mopar trans are.
I also know that lubrication is critical for those bearings to live so I would tempt fate by running overly thick fluid.

Also the cooler flow is detrimental to these trans....you do not get full flow to the cooler until the converter is locked up. This is why all the hot rod wantabes burn this particular trans up and say they're junk.
Cooler flow and the throttle valve cable adjustment are the two things that are instant death to this trans. If one or the other is off....your efforts are shot and so is your trans


On the converter.....your guess is as good as mine. I'd have to say that I'd probably not buy an off the shelf unit until I called performance torque converters or some other aftermarket converter supplier.....seems better stuff has came around since GM came out with these things. Plus I wouldn't want some flushed and tested stock one that's been on the shelf for 10yrs. Everything has a shelf life,the tcc is paper in them. While it's not milk,I'm positive it'll be weakened by time. Who knows tho

If I can be of farther assistance.....just ask :)
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Oh don't worry Ellis, if I have anymore questions, I'll let ya know. Just finished the engine/trans mounts, so it'll be coming back out soon for a rebuild, just wanted to get some ideas and chase some parts.

Thanks again
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:16 pm

Ellis,

you by chance know how much clearance, or room there is in the pan, pass side before anything is in the way? My front driveshaft and the very edge of the pan may share the same space at some point, was gonna see if I could clearance the edge of the pan maybe an inch or so in from the edge.
I'll pull mine just to be sure, looking for a quik answer to see if its even possible
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:30 pm

There's not much room in between the pan and valve body on a stock panned 700. You can make some room tho,just not much. Maybe a 1/2" or so on the pass side and a little more on the driver side due to there room inside provided for the roster comb/shifter detent
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:41 pm

I'll drop the pan to confirm any and all measurements before I start cutting, but lets say there is a 1/2 in, if I 45* the edge of the pan will that cause any flow issues with the valve body?
I'm gonna gain alittle by necking my front shaft down a half inch, but id rather have extra room if I can. Not saying I'm gonna cowboy this thing but lets face it, sthi happens :D
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:16 pm

I wouldn't think you'd hurt a thing beside displacing a little fluid.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby DodgeFreak » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:42 am

ellis93 wrote:I haven't heard of anyone running hydraulic fluid in one but I probably wouldn't. These transmissions are piled up with torrington(sp) bearings.....not the thrust washers that the mopar trans are.
I also know that lubrication is critical for those bearings to live so I would tempt fate by running overly thick fluid.


Not sure if they are the same but the mopar OD has torrington bearings in it with people running hyd fluid with no ill effects...(not that I've heard anyways)
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:42 pm

DodgeFreak wrote:
ellis93 wrote:I haven't heard of anyone running hydraulic fluid in one but I probably wouldn't. These transmissions are piled up with torrington(sp) bearings.....not the thrust washers that the mopar trans are.
I also know that lubrication is critical for those bearings to live so I would tempt fate by running overly thick fluid.


Not sure if they are the same but the mopar OD has torrington bearings in it with people running hyd fluid with no ill effects...(not that I've heard anyways)


True but roughly 3x the size of the gm stuff. They're tiny tot.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:00 pm

I'm just gonna run reg atf in it, the stuff recommended by GM. I've read that lockup 47rh dont like the hydro fluid, so a 700r4 prolly won't fair much better, especially since its a lockup as well, or at least that's how we set up mine, automatically locks converter when I hit 4th gear
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby ellis93 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Are you running the old 82 or 83 valve body? They have the lockup hydraulicly actuated in them. You probably won't like the shift that you'll get from both applying at the same time.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby matthewh » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:50 pm

Honestly, idk. It was an 87 trans, but somebody had been in it before, cause the lockup solenoid and associated wiring was gone. Had a local guy rebuild it, did some upgrades while he was in there. Corvette servos, wider band, etc, what all was done slips my mind at the moment.

I told him what I wanted it to do, basically give the solenoid power, and it does its thing. I guess, if it shifts like my buddies 700r4, lockup is all done internally, automatically. Shifts to 4th, then locks the converter.

We'll see how it drives, once I get it together.
'93 W350 5spd Getrag, 4.10 gears, 83k miles and counting, Mods: LPPP AKA Ma Dually
'54 Dodge M37 6.2/700R4/205, 5.89 gears, WC rear axle
matthewh
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Re: Diesel 700R4

Postby DodgeFreak » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:00 pm

ellis93 wrote:
DodgeFreak wrote:
ellis93 wrote:I haven't heard of anyone running hydraulic fluid in one but I probably wouldn't. These transmissions are piled up with torrington(sp) bearings.....not the thrust washers that the mopar trans are.
I also know that lubrication is critical for those bearings to live so I would tempt fate by running overly thick fluid.


Not sure if they are the same but the mopar OD has torrington bearings in it with people running hyd fluid with no ill effects...(not that I've heard anyways)


True but roughly 3x the size of the gm stuff. They're tiny tot.


Got ya..I haven't been in a 700r4 so I wasn't sure.
92 D350 Cab and Chassis. Auto stock, wiring gremlins. 330k miles
92 W250 Ext cab rotted completely out. Auto, pump maxed, 215 ppump nozzles, Denny T2 pin.
85 D350 single wheel, converted to cummins, getrag, turned up 2 turns and afc screw flush.
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