How much water to run? McMaster Carr nozzles?

[Begle1]

Somebody suggested McMaster-Carr nozzles instead of designated-"Water Injection" nozzles.

They have various kinds of nozzles under "Misting & High-Pressure Spray Nozzles"; "standard misting nozzles" and "fogging nozzles" are what sound relevant.

"Misting" nozzles are $3.81 a piece in brass.
So I'm thinking, those nozzles with three solenoid valves;;;
Solenoid 1: 1 5 GPH nozzle.
Solenoid 2: 1 10 GPH nozzle.
Solenoid 3: 1 5 GPH nozzle and 1 10 GPH nozzle.

That would let me run the following progression, an increase of around 300 mL/ min per stage:
Stage 1: 315 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 2: 630 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 1+2: 945 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+1: 1260 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2: 1575 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2+1: 1890 mL/ min @100 PSI

Now, "fogging" nozzles are $22.14 a piece, which happens to be the same price that most designated "water injection" nozzles go for... Think that'd mean that the Cooling Mist and Snow nozzles are "foggers" instead of "misters"??
If I go with the fogging nozzles, they decide to jump in size from 12.6 GPH to 26.4 GPH @100 PSI...

So, the mild route;;;
Solenoid 1: 1 3.5 GPH nozzle
Solenoid 2: 1 6.6 GPH nozzle
Solenoid 3: 1 12.60 GPH nozzle

Then I could run the following progression:
Stage 1: 220 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 2: 420 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 2+1: 640 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3: 800 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+1: 1020 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2: 1220 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2+1: 1440 mL/ min @100 PSI
So that would be a progression of about 200 mL/ min between stages.

And then the wild route;;;
Solenoid 1: 1 6.6 GPH nozzle
Solenoid 2: 1 12.6 GPH nozzle
Solenoid 3: 1 26.4 GPH nozzle

That would let me progress about 400 mL/ min between stages
Stage 1: 420 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 2: 800 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 1+2: 1220 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3: 1670 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+1: 2090 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2: 2470 mL/ min @100 PSI
Stage 3+2+1: 2890 mL/ min @100 PSI

I keep hearing reports from guys (Tank and David) saying that 1300 mL/ min doesn't even bog down an idling engine... That makes me think that 2890 mL/ min would not be overkill on a non-intercooled truck at 3000 RPM, 40 PSI and !@#$ degrees EGT... How much do you think I have to have to get away with 3/4 a gallon a minute?

Assuming that a McMaster-Carr mL/ min is equal to a Snow or Cooling Mist mL/ min, of course...

What do you guys think?

[Fnschlaud4620]

What you are trying to accomplish by adding water injection is cooling of the intake charge air, not adding water to the engine.

With that in mind a higher presser getting sprayed through an orphis has more ability to asorbe more heat, do to thermo laws

That is why the pull trucks dont bother with an intercooler and run 600+ psi through a .003-.010 jet.

I have read about guys running a .003 jet on # 1 & 6. On 2 & 3, and 4 & 5 share a .005 jet and a .005 as close to the turbo as possiable after the comp wheel. This is at 600 psi though.

how is it done, a snowplow 12v electric pump and hobs switches, use machining water based cutting fluid as lube for the pump. Then you are serious.

[cummins king]

haisly has a kit that is supost to make alot of pressure

but if pressure is the key then why not get a belt driven pump and ram 20000 psi of water into the intake

[Fnschlaud4620]

20000 psi is the same amount of pressure used in a water jet cutter, it would be unsafe and blow a hole through the other side.

[Begle1]

Haisley has a belt driven and an electric driven kit, for $2500 and $1600 respectively. Used on trucks running four to five times as much horsepower as I'm ever going to sniff, with two to three times as much boost pressure. And 1000-2000 more RPM. With a lot more flow rate.

I wouldn't mind hearing more about an easy to install pump that can give me 300-600 PSI, but I feel that's a tad out of the current price (and performance) range...

Is there a point where any increase in flow rate at 150-220 PSI becomes worthless? Is that point before or after 3000 mL/ min?

[Fnschlaud4620]

here is some thing kinda like what I will be using. It has its own resivor for water and is less than 300.00. You could piece together a mean BIG POWER water injections kit for the same price as a snow kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONARCH-12V-DC-HYDRAULIC-PUMP-SINGLE-ACTING_W0QQitemZ160226433393QQihZ006QQcategoryZ41484QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Begle1]

Ooo, that is nice. You'd put a bypass regulator on it to keep things at your 500-600 PSI? If it could move 1.25 gallons per minute under full load, and it's adjustable up to 3000 PSI, it sure seems to me like it could atomize quite a bit at 500 PSI... Almost like I'd want it's baby brother instead.

How expensive or hard to find is machining-water cutting fluid?

I wonder what the amp draw on that baby is. Especially if you were putting it through solenoids instead of running it off a PWM, you'd be bypassing craploads of water.

How much greater cooling affect is there with 500 PSI as oposed to 150 PSI?

What kind of solenoids would you have to use for 500 PSI though? I have a feeling those would be more than the $40 for 150 PSI ones most guys run... I guess nitrous solenoids are around twice that if you get a good deal?

[Fnschlaud4620]

You dont need a bypass regulator, all you would have to do is adjust the pressure releif valve or put in a weaker spring untill you get in the 5-700 psi range.

then you can run it in stages, no PWM necessary, just make a log manifold supply, and how ever many stages you want.

stage one- one NAPA hobbs switch turns on, one solenoid supplys water to a jet, or jets, however you design, say it turns on at 10psi

stage 2 repet of stage one but turns on at 20 psi and can have bigger jets

Stage 3 turns on at 30 psi boost, or 40 what ever you want

Stage...............

the only other thing I am aware of is you must include check valves in the design so water doesn't fill the engine if you are parket on a downward angle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPINDKOOL-35-CNC-BI ... dZViewItem
cutting fluid, just a water based lube for the pump. mix at 15:1[url][/url]

[Begle1]

I don't see why you'd need a check valve if you were using default-off solenoids? Not like check valves a big deal...

Now you have me looking a little hydraulic pumps... What do I want, 1 GPM at 500 PSI?

[Fnschlaud4620]

I would say athat 1 gal/ min @ 500 would be good.

I saw one setup that has a 350 chevy starter modified to a couple to a small pump.

[Begle1]

Unless it was a kit, I don't see myself turning a Chevy starter into a hydraulic pump... My fabrication skills are pretty much maxed out at drilling holes in metal.

Who are some big companies that make hydraulic pumps? I'm trying to find a catalog with some GPH/ PSI curves so I can see what kind of pumps to look for...

[Fnschlaud4620]

this is what I was talking about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PULLING-TRACTOR-WATER-INJECTION-SYSTEMJOHN-DEERE-IH-NEW_W0QQitemZ290218852015QQihZ019QQcategoryZ11756QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Parker makes pumps

[Begle1]

That one's too much, though... And it comes with one of those pneumatic atomizer nozzles...

I wonder what Harbor Freight's got...

[Begle1]

How about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydraulic-12-Volt-D ... dZViewItem

If there are used pumps that put out 3 GPM at 2500 PSI for under $200, there have to be 1 GPM at 500 PSI ones out there for cheap too...

[Begle1]

And, you know, I don't have air conditioning...

And pulley-driven pumps are cheaper than dirt used...