Another Dual VE Thread

[soggy]

I'm kicking it around in my head and have a few things that I'm not sure about.

I was thinking of running the pumps on a custom made bracket in between the timing cover and the fender. Obviously this would mean moving the batteries and blocking off the hole in the timing case where the VE was on a stock engine. To run it the way i want to I would have to get rid of the fan and oil fill spout. I figure on running electric fans and relocating the oil fill. The thumbnail is how i propose to drive the pumps. The last pictue in the link below is what i would like to copy as close as possible.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/kolkman.htm

First off, could you run them off of a normal serpentine style belt or would the belt slip on the pulleys and mess the timing up? If you could not run them off with a belt what would you do?

Second- The Ve runs at half of engine RPM at all times correct?

Third- How would a guy figure out what size the pulleys should be in order to run the pumps at the right speed?

Anything else you fellows think be sure to let me know- Thanks.


PS- I know this is a waste of time and money and a p-pump would be cheaper and make more power blah blah blah.

[Richie O]

You would need a cog style belt like a timing belt. Any other belt will slip.

[lectro_static]

The pump does run at 1/2 crankshaft speed, I believe the serpentine would slip I would use a gillmer drive belt (not sure on the spelling on that) they use them on top alcohol fuel pumps etc. they do not slip.

[redneckroot]

What you need is to have 3 gears, 1 on the first pump, 1 in between them so the 3rd gear would spin the right direction. I would not use a belt in this kind of situation.

Or you have one pump that faces the cab, and the other pump bolted onto the timing cover on the radiator side. It would look goofy (If there is room?) but that would spare the need for an extra gear.

OR you combine both of my ideas and mount 3 of them!

[oldestof11]

Schied had a V12 pump on there puller. They went back to a P-pump due to iding issues and other things. Maybe a dual VE is do-able but I do not think so. In order to do it right, you will have to disconnect the dynamic timing. If 1 gets a little more fuel pressure, it will mess with the timing and throw off however you have it set.

[Begle1]

You could use a cogged belt; it'd have to be a hefty one though, at least a timing belt, possible a primary drive off a Harley. How much horsepower does a turned-up VE take to drive at 3000+ RPM WFO? 10? 20+? Maybe you'd be better with a chain.

The second pump needs to be driven at the exact same speed as the first pump. I'd presicion-weld or lathe/ interference fit or CNC/ bolt a pulley onto the stock injection pump gear, and keep that gear and that pump in the stock location. Then run a belt from that pulley to wherever you can mount the second pump; attach a pulley of the exact same size to that pump. Then modify the timing cover to clear the belt.

Dynamic timing is the only reason you'd want to do this; you could tie the two cases together to ensure timing advance is equalized, one pump is always going to be firing before the other one, but you need them to be timed a few degrees different or else they're going to fight each other to death. The idea is to get twice the duration by doing this, not to increase the injection pressures.

While you're belt driving stuff you could belt drive a gear-to-gear lift pump off a 60-series Detroit or similar to provide both injection pumps with fuel. That could be done with a serpentine belt.

The reason the common rail guys can add a second pump with a serpentine belt is that their timing is all through the electronic injectors and the CP3's themselves aren't timed.

[soggy]

Why would the pumps fight each other? I don't understand that part, keep the info and ideas coming guys.

[burnt_servo]

lots of small diesel engines that use the ve pump use the timing belt to drive the pump .

[KTA]

It could be done just like this tractor, but besides just being able to say you did it, I don't think it is real practical.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/kolkman.htm

[Ace]

It's one of things that sounds like a good idea, - until you figure out what it would take to pull it off. But that is one Gawd-awful serious tractor!