Diesel Power Magazine 1st gen buildup

[flashgordon]

Thanks for all your interest! "Budget" and "Simple" are the two main goals of the project. This means we're sticking with the 727. Got a tranny guy that's going to be doing a regular hi-po rebuild on the 727 (good clutches and bands) and picked up a converter from Dave Goerend. Stuff anyone can do. We are going to spray it (nitrous) which a lot of people won't like, but hey, it's my truck A fast reliable truck is what we're shooting for, on a budget. The big key is weight. The truck only weighs 4850. I figure if a 7000# Duramax can run 11.90s with 700rwhp, then I'll only need 500rwhp to do it. Don't want to cage it, so 500rwhp with nitrous is what we're shooting for. Shouldn't be too hard. Going to max out the 12 first, then going with a 14mm and a fuel system. Maybe try to fab a set of twins with a HT3B...dunno how far we'll go yet....I'll keep you guys updated, but the trans won't be in for a month or so, so don't expect things to move too fast.

I would recommend a Cheetah manual shift valve body, makes one vary vary firm 1-2 shift and 2-3 hit hard too.
This eliminate having to time the revers band release(what aloes deceleration or hold back when letting of the go peddle when in L1)with the 2nt gear (band) engaging
NOTE: If this truck is to tow any thing or go off roading............I would not recommend the manuals shift valve body.

Going down hill with your foot off the go peddle, in L1 will be just like you in neutral............until you rev the eng back up to speed. I'm not doing a vary good job of explaining this..................its like you put the shifter into N every time you let of the go peddle and when you step on it, you put it in gear again......................Any was I'm sold on this valve body
But since your going with a Goerend T/Q ....might not be such a bad idea to go with there performance valve body.............I just don't now any thing about them. But some one here will!

Flash.

[Begle1]

Why not get a manual valve body with engine braking? The shifts are just as firm, but it holds the vehicle back in gear. I don't see why it would be a problem off road, but you definitely wouldn't want it for towing.

What goes hand in hand with the manual valve body is the ratchet shifter. It's such a different feel to drive something with a good shifter and manual valve body. You can't have one without the other.

[flashgordon]

Why not get a manual valve body with engine braking? The shifts are just as firm, but it holds the vehicle back in gear. I don't see why it would be a problem off road, but you definitely wouldn't want it for towing.

What goes hand in hand with the manual valve body is the ratchet shifter. It's such a different feel to drive something with a good shifter and manual valve body. You can't have one without the other.

Begle1 the overriding clutch or sprag..........allow 1st gear to happen but when the force is being driven back wards (decelerations) the over riding clutch(one way sprag) just free wheels. With the revers band applied and first gear clutch applied the band hold the drum stationary allowing deceleration(this scenario only plays out in first gear.)

With the cheetah manual shift valve body, the revers band is not applied in first gear. this is what make the 1-2 shift so grate, because there is only a band to apply instead of timing the revs band release with the 2nt gear band application.

with the manual shift valve body, and you on top of a hill going down, the ext brake wouldn't help you because the eng is not connected to the tires, when decelerating in L1. You would have to shift into 2nt to slow down because L1 or first would be just like N and you would only slow in speed when you got to the bottom of the hill.... or shifted into 2nt.

Thing of it this way,... with a ratchet and a socket, on a bolt, you can turn the nut, but when you try to turn the ratchet the other way it just slips, change direction and it grabs again.
step on go peddle(nut turns) let of go peddle(ratchet slips)

Flash.

[Begle1]

So what is the disadvantage to the manual valve bodies with the engine braking?

[ford69557ci]

i think some w/m and nitrous would be sweet for a mag truck but that offer of my old crapy 4x4 against you national mag truck is still up. so when you get yours done hopefully i will have mine partly done so we can get a race goin

[GPSMatt]

gunna have a long drive he is on the other side of the country lol

[flashgordon]

So what is the disadvantage to the manual valve bodies with the engine braking?

How good would your ext brake work if you were going down hill in Neutral................................................... not at all Right?
that is what happen in L1 with a manual valve body.

I know it hard to grasp but if you ever get the chance to drive a vehicle with on...................It will all make sence

Flash

[Begle1]

I've been driving my truck with a Hughes forward pattern manual valve (with 1st gear engine braking) for the last couple of months...

Some valve bodies have the engine braking, some don't; I don't know the details of how they work, but they do. In Hughes' case, their forward patterns had engine braking and the reverse patterns didn't. Turbo-Action has a few different lines, some with braking and some without.

Check out this webpage explaining the Cheetah.
http://www.turboaction.com/vb1.html

CHEETAH Full Manual (PRN321) Pro Street
Provide full manual control only. No automatic features. Maintains stock shift pattern. Allows full engine braking (slow down of vehicle by downshifting, also good for sports car racing application).

So their manual Pro-Street forward pattern valve body has engine braking.

And further down in the page, they have a chart detailing the engine braking of their non-Pro Street valve body line. None of those valve bodies have first gear engine braking except the 2-speed Powerglide reverse and forward patterns, and all of them have second gear engine braking except the reverse pattern Turbo Hydro's.

[flashgordon]

I've been driving my truck with a Hughes forward pattern manual valve (with 1st gear engine braking) for the last couple of months...

Some valve bodies have the engine braking, some don't; I don't know the details of how they work, but they do. In Hughes' case, their forward patterns had engine braking and the reverse patterns didn't. Turbo-Action has a few different lines, some with braking and some without.

Check out this webpage explaining the Cheetah.
http://www.turboaction.com/vb1.html

CHEETAH Full Manual (PRN321) Pro Street
Provide full manual control only. No automatic features. Maintains stock shift pattern. Allows full engine braking (slow down of vehicle by downshifting, also good for sports car racing application).

So their manual Pro-Street forward pattern valve body has engine braking.

And further down in the page, they have a chart detailing the engine braking of their non-Pro Street valve body line. None of those valve bodies have first gear engine braking except the 2-speed Powerglide reverse and forward patterns, and all of them have second gear engine braking except the reverse pattern Turbo Hydro's.

AHHHH thats were are communication broke down .........when you said eng brake i assumed that you were talking about a Eng ext brake....like this.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p58/ ... C01896.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p58/ ... C01893.jpg
My bad


flash.

[KTA]

On a side note launching a high power cummins without using true manual low( which has the 1st/reverse band applied) will usually rip the overrunning clutch sprag out of the case, therby junking your tranny. I have 2 47Re cases that are trashed to prove it.

[KTA]

With good injectors, the pump set to max and a big shot of nitrous 500rwhp should be no problem with an all stock parts motor, 12mm pump and s300 turbo, I recommend the 64/71. You will no doubt have to do something about the head gasket as it will probably say bye bye after 400 if not sooner. The whole key to 1st gen power is injectors, injectors and injectors.

[flashgordon]

On a side note launching a high power cummins without using true manual low( which has the 1st/reverse band applied) will usually rip the overrunning clutch sprag out of the case, therby junking your tranny. I have 2 47Re cases that are trashed to prove it.

Were they the Bolt in sprags???????
Just curious if that would fix the problem from happing in the first place.......was that the ones that got ripped out?

What brand of Valve body do you run and doses the revers and 2nt band survive.

Flash

[JQmile]

Thanks for the info KTA, I'll make sure to launch in true low. I think the light weight will help, also since I am 2wd no posi I might not be able to get enough traction to break stuff, even with slicks. As far as head gaskets first we're going to try the redneck method of torquing the headbolts to 125 to see if that will keep it on. Once we're over 400rwhp though we'll probably do it "right."

[Begle1]

On a side note launching a high power cummins without using true manual low( which has the 1st/reverse band applied) will usually rip the overrunning clutch sprag out of the case, therby junking your tranny. I have 2 47Re cases that are trashed to prove it.

When are you in "true manual low" as opposed to what isn't true manual low?

[cummins king]

ya nitrous would be cool but it would be awsome to have a first gen that makes 500 plus hp without nitrous it would show those second and thrid gens what were made of, your defently going to need beter injectors and turbo, i saw the truck in my monthly subscription so i was happy that we were finaly getting some poblisity