6.7 C/R to VE conversion OBSERVATIONS.

[Hansen01]

Cool stuff Mark. Will be an interesting combo if you get it to work

[The_Head]

All this for 13% more displacement? Seems like a lotta work.

Would it be easier to offset grind a 5.9L crankshaft? Just throwing it out there.

[Mark Nixon]

All this for 13% more displacement? Seems like a lotta work.

Would it be easier to offset grind a 5.9L crankshaft? Just throwing it out there.

Tell me who'll do custom crank grinding and not bend me over, much less even DO IT at all?
Hell, I tried to find someone to build up a journal on a 6.7 crank, noone even LOOKED at it and all I got was BS and a sob story on POTENTIALLY why they couldn't do it.
One guy even quoted me $100, plus the cost of a standard re-grind for the rest, then suddenly, when I indicated he was the guy for the job, he was "backed up all summer".

I'm tired of dicking around with machine shops who only want gravy jobs.
If I can make this work, then I'll have what I want without spending 2Gs for a stupid timing case to do it AND I will have done so with no machine shop work.

Mark.

[The_Head]

I dunno, it was just an idea. I'd have to go over 100 miles to find a decent machine shop.

An offset grind would solve all of your parts compatibility problems though. IF you were able to use stock con rods. There's also the fact that the 6.7 also had a larger bore than the 5.9L.

[Mark Nixon]

I've did a deck comparison between a VP5.9 and the 6.7 piston and the difference, as best as I can crudely measure, is @ .180".
The 6.7 uses the same rod length as a 5.9, in fact, I'm going to put the machined fit rods from a 12 valve, or VP engine into this engine to preclude the potential for rod failure.

On an interesting note, I took apart a 6.7 with @ 30,000 miles on it (for the crank) and was checking the "crush" on the rod bearings.
With only 30,000 miles, most of the OEM bearing halves would still FALL out of a dry and clean rod, when I turned the rod so the bearing will fall out, which means that either the rod was machined too loose, or the cap/rod has already stretched.

It's POSSIBLE this could be due to the fact that "cracked" rods also have an uneven part line, which lets the bearing either protrude or recess on either end, but THAT really worries me.
NOT a great sign, in my book.

Mark.

[Mark Nixon]

Played with it a little more to-day. Fun-Fun.

I mocked the timing case back onto it, with the cam and crank in place and a VE pump installed, the gear lash was okay and can be adjusted looser or tighter by moving the case around, then locking the case bolts down.
I must say that this is not going to be hard to do at all!

The one thing I was MOST concerned with, getting the lower dowel pin located so the case will "never" move under load, was concerning me a bit, then I looked at the case closer.

Turns out that the part of the case where the lower dowel pin is located, can either be drilled clear through, or cut open, to transfer punch the center for the dowel pin's hole.
Wouldn't you know I have JUST the junk timing case that will work for this exercise!

Basically, this timing case will become the template for both dowel pins and all of the remaining holes (@ 6 of them).

I also figured out the oil pan, just need to lop off the front of both, the 6.7 one, and an old pre-commonrail one and swap them around, which will probably be the hardest part of the whole conversion.

Mark.

[welderboy250]

Just another thought on the pan, you could make a custom girdle that seals to the bottom of the block and extends far enough forward to bolt to the bottom of the new timing case. Then, u drill and tap holes for the front of the old oil pan. Of course the side rail bolts go through both the pan and girdle and thread into the block in the original locations. It would save having to hack the pans.

[Mark Nixon]

Welderboy250,
Since the nose of the commonrail pan is actually shorter than a 12 valve/VE pan, I'd actually just considered adding in a filler piece and plug welding the old bolt holes in the pan, less work and it could feasibly be undone later, with little damage to the more expensive commonrail pan.

Right now I'm being stymied, and forced to wait, by the case dowel pin holes.
It turns out they are an oddball metric size (9mm, I think) and wouldn't you know, metric drill bits and transfer punches are a PITA to come by!

Mark.

[ahale2772]

interested to hear about the VP/VE line swap deal....

[bmoeller]

Got to see this project in person last weekend. Gonna be pretty cool once it's up and running.

[Dieselwrencher]

interested to hear about the VP/VE line swap deal....

You can do it the cheap way or expensive way. I went the expensive way, and I'm betting Mark's going the cheap way. I got my lines bent at Scheid.

[Mark Nixon]

Some pics to illustrate;

The boss that's in the way, on BOTH the VE and the P-7100, both cases in place...

VE:


P-7100:


Timing pin housing relief point:


Here's 2 pics, 1 each, of the underside of a 6.7 head and a VP head, note that the 6.7 head has much more casting in the lower end of the intake closer to the pump area, the grinding marks on the VP head are to facilitate minor clearance issues on a VE, I got a little farther back than needed, no damage done.
The only reason I'm showing the undersides of the heads is to show that the 6.7 is broader across the bottom and a P-7100 won't clear the 6.7 head....

6.7 head:


VP head:


Here's shot of an oil pan laid onto a 6.7 block, with a VE timing case in place:


Example of a couple of holes that'll need filled, drilled and tapped:


Mark.

[Tacoclaw]

Cool pics, Mark. Is there any chance of jumping a tooth or two and pulling the pump back to the beginning of it's slots to gain clearance in the intake area?

[Mark Nixon]

TacoBell,
Yes, I figured on jumping a tooth or 2, since dieselwrencher mentioned it while I was looking at his VE-ed VP engine that time.
I still went ahead and did the grinding, just in case it still needs more timing later on and I'd have enough clearance on the linkages.

It's going to be sort of a trial and error deal on timing it, since everyone and his brother knows how the P-7100 works with a 24 valve, but the VE is a veritable unknown on something like this.

I expect it'll need more timing and fuel, given the size of the beast.

Mark.

[Farmboy92_2009]

I want!!