tanks psycho fuel system

[DTanklage]

i came up with some ideas for a psycho fuel system and explained my design to josh. he was going to have a pump flowed and try this on a stand (to see exactly what it is worth) but now he is working on a p-pump instead. the system i designed would mostly be for dyno runs, 1/4 mile times, or maybe for pulling? dont know how this would work for sure, but if someone wants to give it a shot here is my idea:

the principle is simple - create a runaway condition within the ve for a short period of time (just when it is required, dyno, or 1/4 mile) and be able to stop the runaway when ever you want to. how would I do that? well, I have two different ideas, both very similar - the only difference is in the vane pump area of the ve.

on the first design, which is very simple, all you do is make a seal retainer for the front seal and feed the case body thru the return. install a high pressure pump (like 300 psi), maybe a regulator, a check valve, and for sure a solenoid (so you can kill the high pressure feed instantly) and run it into the return. put that set up on a stand and see what kind of case pressure the ve can withstand and what it does to output. the pump top mating surface may have to be machined and something other than the rubber o-ring used to seal the case. at some point the high pressure might lock up some of the case internals, I don’t know, but there is only one way to find out...

second version is similar cept do away with the vane pump entirely. build a double or triple seal holder to go in its place and run a additional 60 (or so) psi pump for the primary fuel. plumb that in thru fuel shut off solinoid (with a check valve of course) and put the 'big fuel' into the case as in the above system

whatcha think?

now you know why I kept asking if you guys would install a case pressure gauge on your ve

mine is tired, don’t know if I could trust its numbers to be typical

and it is getting 21 psi inlet pressure from lift pump which is probably affecting the case pressure


*another thing someone could try would be to remove the fuel screw and build a system with a sealed rod on a electric solenoid that when activated it would push the lever all the way to the front (causing run away)

or if one was really bored they could try both...

you may want to have some spare ve's laying around. don’t think you would want to take the ve off your daily driver, throw it on a stand, and start throwing ridiculous pressures at it

don tanklage

[ford69557ci]

sounds interesting but i though the speed related pressure of the vane pump had somethin to do with the timing advance in the pump?

[DTanklage]

i am not sure how that works but it is all stuff that can be figured out on the flow bench

if the thing doesnt lock up as soon as you get some real pressure in it...

lol

[ford69557ci]

i have on my bench a 14mm head and rotor and a spare pump that i am doing some porting and flow improvements on so i might be interested in this . but what kind of pump could supply that pressure besides a belt driven pump??

[KTA]

I think you will find 300psi case pressure will most likely split your aluminum housing.

[Begle1]

Nobody's ever splitten a VE before?

Damn Don, you gotta do it! In the name of science, man!

[ford69557ci]

at 300 psi when the split happen wouldnt it just explode??

[DTanklage]

mallory makes a elec pump (around $150) that will make over 200psi when "dead headed". dont know how much it will fall off when flowing what ever the ve flows tho...

the pump you will need probably wont be found on the summit web site if that is what you were thinkin...

only prob w a mech pump is the cost

i am sure that there is an industrial pump out there (electrical) that will get the job done....and it would probably be cheaper than a mechanical pump

maybe a 110v pump and an inverter? (its not like you are going to be running the big one very often)

don

[DTanklage]

opps, left this open and went out to dinner so i didnt see the other posts until after i posted that

yea, it may grenade - dunno

also, I DIDNT SAY 300 PSI, at least not for a starting point (hehe)

maybe on a flow bench you find that after 250 output doesnt inc?

or maybe 275?

or maybe it does....

who is gonna find out?????????

[bgilbert]

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, how about using what is proven and works? KTA's Aeromotive A1000, regulator setup and upgraded supply line/tank pickup.

[ford69557ci]

innovation and people that are not affraid to spend some money and break some parts is the reason the dieslel pick up performance market is what it is today. It is also the reason why there are so many different places to buy parts and products. If it wast for people like that we would all be stuck buyin crap from banks and nobody else. 1st gen trucks are not the mainstream now so we have to try new things if they work good if they dont try somethin else we cant go and buy someone elses design like the vp44 and common rail crowd. So I say lets break some stuff and make some power I would love to see a 900hp all #2 ve truck and who says it cant be done?

[ford69557ci]

i guess im goin to build an octagon wheel and as soon as the place i got my 14mm head from gets the higher lift cam plate done i am goin to talk with my local shop about doing some testing with a few of these ideas the first one i am goin to do is what happens when you feed into the shut off port and then go from there. I might be able to make a round wheel roll smoother.

[DTanklage]

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, how about using what is proven and works? KTA's Aeromotive A1000, regulator setup...

until i install a case pressure gauge and prove myself wrong i am gonna say that that set up doesnt work. why? cuz we are looking for more hp, right? well, once the vane pump is spun up to where the engine is at full boost i think it (the vane pump) is making more pressure than the a-1000 is regulated to. so what is really happening in that set up? well, if kta has the regulator set at 60 psi i believe the vane pump overcomes that almost instantly (once the throttle is pressed adn the r's come up) and then the check valve closes and the a-1000 might as well not be there...

and upgraded supply line,tank, and pickup.

now you are talkin bill! the higher the fuel tank is the better (the less molecules of air will be in the fuel when it gets to the ip). so throw away your stock under bed tanks, install a fuel cell mounted high up in the bed, run 1/2 or 5/8 supply line, and dont use a pick up at all! why make the lift pump suck the fuel up hill? fuel cells have a sump with outlets at the bottom so the weight of the fuel will help push the fuel to the lift pump

that is how i have my truck set up and the gauge never moves off of 21 psi

[DTanklage]

I think you will find 300psi case pressure will most likely split your aluminum housing.

ps - the housing is cast iron

only the top is alum...

[ford69557ci]

how would you go about runnin a bottom sump on the factory plastic tank??