Build recipe 91 IC truck

[flyin6]

Few times folks have been VERY close....but regardless of the dyno no one has claimed 500rwhp. One guy has supposedly done it, but there was never any proof....nor was he on the forums to say he had done it. It was merely someone said that a guy did it at a dyno and that was about it. That number was like 523 IIRC.

I thought someone made 623 but with a 14mm pump, not true?

[flyin6]

Project update:
Again for those not following this build over at Duramaxforums.com here's a brief update.

Currently the cab is partially removed while the underside and frame gets the renewal treatment.

The wheel centers were welded into the ex-military HMMV wheels and all that was milled flat. I am still awaiting a smoothing lathe cut on the rings that will clamp on the tires. The tires have been grooved and the double beadlock centers stuff inside the tires.

The fenders and hood were removed and cleaned. Amazingly, there is NO rust there at all. I did find cowl cracks, but it's such a minor thing and easily fixed that I'm not sweating it. I will probably remove part of the right cowl box to make room for a 6" tube that will be part of the snorkel system, so those cracks will not even exist shortly.

THe bed is more or less done except final painting, just awaiting the cab to be finished before it gets bolted back on.

The S-300 and the 60mm/14cm turbo parts are on hand as well as my custom injectors from Gillette. They are the +120-125HP units they make out of new Bosch injectors.

I have a question for the smart folks

I plan to fab up the twin setup while the fenders are off. Considering the turbos I am using, a fuel pin, dynamic timing device, bigger injectors, methanol/water injection and 4200RPM spring,

How close am I to needing to O-Ring the head or add the 60lb valve springs?

[AHineman]

You're there.

[flyin6]

You're there.

I was hoping to here:

"Naw, you're fine...No need to do anything except tighten up the sniffer valve and muffler bearing.

If I pull the head, then It's gonna cost me a multi angle valve job, springs, O-ring, gaskets, porting, and studs along with a can of paint.

But, that's better than bolting on the twins and then pulling them back off again to replace the gasket and do all the above

[RCCUMMINS89]

I'm going to go out on a limb and GUESS that they suggested an S366 for the primary? Also, "125-150hp" injectors are probably a 5x14 sized stick that they are calling that 125hp.

If the 2 above things I'm assuming are correct....You're not going to need to o ring the head. Though your drive pressures are going to be through the roof... you're not going to have all that much for boost and/or cylinder pressures in the grand scheme of things.


Now in saying that......better safe than sorry and o ring the head so you don't have to worry about it in the future.

[RCCUMMINS89]

Few times folks have been VERY close....but regardless of the dyno no one has claimed 500rwhp. One guy has supposedly done it, but there was never any proof....nor was he on the forums to say he had done it. It was merely someone said that a guy did it at a dyno and that was about it. That number was like 523 IIRC.

I thought someone made 623 but with a 14mm pump, not true?

On a 14 they have (639 IIRC)... but he was asking about a stock 12mm pump. It's IMO pretty dang easy to get to 400 with the right combination of parts and tuning, but after 400 it starts becoming rather hard.

[flyin6]

I'm going to go out on a limb and GUESS that they suggested an S366 for the primary? Also, "125-150hp" injectors are probably a 5x14 sized stick that they are calling that 125hp.

If the 2 above things I'm assuming are correct....You're not going to need to o ring the head. Though your drive pressures are going to be through the roof... you're not going to have all that much for boost and/or cylinder pressures in the grand scheme of things.


Now in saying that......better safe than sorry and o ring the head so you don't have to worry about it in the future.

What I know about the injectors is that they are Bosch, they are custom built. I am told they flow 55LPM per injector. Now my eyes aren't exactly what they used to be but I am either seeing 6 or 7 very small holes in the angled part of the tip. Definitely not 5 hole units

Sounds like you are not liking the drive pressures... You'd prefer a 16CM housing instead? Man, that 14CM housing was quite a bit more than the 16, but looking at it, I thought it would be a quick spooler.

The setup continues to get better and more defined. Looking at my transmission parts purchase, and looking at the PATC parts. I'm thinking a triple clutch, lower stall converter. With that in mind the quicker spooling turbo(s) setup might get happy(er). Well I'd get happier at least.

The only think that has me off center is the fact that I am now using 37" tires and still have the 3.54 gear. I would have preferred to have 4.10...

My Duramax uses 35" tires, and a 4.56 gear and I'd say it is over geared. Just touch the throttle and the tires are gone at lower speeds. Just WAAAY too much power. If it weren't for torque modulation in that slush-box ally, I wouldn't have any rear tires.

So with that in mind similar torque and 37's along with a 3.54 (In my mind) will go a long way toward cutting down that excess of power that blows off tires so easily.

[flyin6]

Few times folks have been VERY close....but regardless of the dyno no one has claimed 500rwhp. One guy has supposedly done it, but there was never any proof....nor was he on the forums to say he had done it. It was merely someone said that a guy did it at a dyno and that was about it. That number was like 523 IIRC.

I thought someone made 623 but with a 14mm pump, not true?

On a 14 they have (639 IIRC)... but he was asking about a stock 12mm pump. It's IMO pretty dang easy to get to 400 with the right combination of parts and tuning, but after 400 it starts becoming rather hard.

I think I'll be hitting you up for more specifics on combo, but looking at it, you place mine in the upper 300 to low 400 range? Remember the methanol...

[RCCUMMINS89]

The part of the compounds that I wouldn't recommend is an S366 (if that's what they are recommending)(You are saying an S300, that's about the only thing they would use). That's not a good charger to use in compounds. BD Performance uses it in their towing twins........but on a VE.... it won't make much power. A ve needs more air per hp than any other Cummins, due to how they fuel. A 60 upgrade and 14 housing is PLENTY for a high pressure charger, but I wouldn't run anything smaller than an S400 based charger. An S472 with a 1.10 housing is what I would of recommended.

As far as injectors....at 55lpm... if everything else is correct, that is enough to barely crack 400. A 55lpm is actually smaller than what I was thinking they are calling a 125hp injector. That's a pretty darn small injector.



IF (BIG IF) that combo is what they are giving you WH1C with a 60 upgrade an 14 housing, over an S366.... matched with 55lpm injectors will dyno in the 325-350 range. Unless of course it is a 7 hole injector, and in which case it'll be high 200s. If it is a 6 hole injector, it'll be higher in the hp range.... but might be hazy after a while.

[flyin6]

The part of the compounds that I wouldn't recommend is an S366 (if that's what they are recommending)(You are saying an S300, that's about the only thing they would use). That's not a good charger to use in compounds. BD Performance uses it in their towing twins........but on a VE.... it won't make much power. A ve needs more air per hp than any other Cummins, due to how they fuel. A 60 upgrade and 14 housing is PLENTY for a high pressure charger, but I wouldn't run anything smaller than an S400 based charger. An S472 with a 1.10 housing is what I would of recommended.

Man now you have me concerned...I do want significant power, but when I was describing what I wanted to do with the truck to Steve at Gillette, he came around to towing. I think that is what generated the S-300 purchase and also, the fact that he had a supply of them, which allowed him to sell them inexpensively.
I talked about this vehicle before but to refresh, it is being set up as a pseudo military vehicle, which I call a survival vehicle. Must be dead reliable, capable of overland travel, able to spring at times, capable of pulling a heavy trailer, punch through barriers like road blocks and cinder block walls, to escape if necessary and would have a normal weight around 7,000 and a "mission" weight around 10,000.

I want to say we were focusing on all that when selecting the turbos. I will not do any racing, sled pulling or other sports, but will crawl all over a farm I own, drive on back roads and highways, use the truck like a car, and tow trailers, stuff like that.

So without knowing enough about proper turbo selection, I could not bring much knowledge to the table as it were.
I have a s-300 sitting here now. along with the parts for the high pressure turbo. So you're saying it needs to go away and get replaced...That might be unlikely, however might also be possible.
So what are my courses of action here?
1. install it as is
2. Replace it with a 400 series
3. Change up the compressor/hot end???


As far as injectors....at 55lpm... if everything else is correct, that is enough to barely crack 400. A 55lpm is actually smaller than what I was thinking they are calling a 125hp injector. That's a pretty darn small injector.

I did specify I do not want much if any smoke. A smoke trail leads to things, and I don't want to be seen... Back in the day, when I flew Jets, sometimes ATC would call out my traffic as a B727 here or there. All I'd do is find the black line and follow it to the jet...same same with an evading vehicle, just follow the smoke trail. I like how my D-Max barely hazes but will throw some smoke when the turbo really spools. But that's the most I want



IF (BIG IF) that combo is what they are giving you WH1C with a 60 upgrade an 14 housing, over an S366.... matched with 55lpm injectors will dyno in the 325-350 range. Unless of course it is a 7 hole injector, and in which case it'll be high 200s. If it is a 6 hole injector, it'll be higher in the hp range.... but might be hazy after a while.

Surprising! You are saying that the larger injectors, a 60/14cm high press and my S-300 will only make about the same HP as I could make with a bigger single! I wouldn't have thought so...But I am definitely no expert on these mechanical injection engines!

[flyin6]

I use Amsoil stuff in my trucks. Was just ordering some oil, and came across this abundance of information which I thought I'd share:


LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:


Engine Oil
Grade 1......CF-4
SAE 15W-40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AMEQT)




Synthetic 15W-40 Diesel Oil (DMEQT)




Synthetic 15W40 OE Diesel Oil (OEDQT)
-9 To 10 F......10W-30 [1]
Above 10 F......15W-40
Below 0 F......5W-30, 10W-30
Manual Transmission,G360 (5-SPD)......SJ
All TEMPS......5W-30
SAE 5W-30 Signature Series 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (ASLQT)
XL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLFQT)
OE 5W30 Synthetic Motor Oil (OEFQT)
Automatic Transmission,A500......AP4
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Automatic Transmission,A999(32RH)......AP4
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Automatic Transmission,A998(31RH)......AP4
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Automatic Transmission,A518(46RH)......AP4
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Differential, Front Spicer 44......GL-5
All TEMPS......80W-140, 85W-140, 80W-90
SEVERE GEAR 75W-140 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVOQT)
80W-140 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGO05)
Differential, Front Spicer 60......GL-5
All TEMPS......80W-140, 85W-140, 80W-90
SEVERE GEAR 75W-140 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVOQT)
80W-140 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGO05)
Limited Slip Differential, Rear Dana 60......GL-5*
All TEMPS......80W-90 [2] [3]
SAE 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube (AGLQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVGQT)
75W-90 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGRQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-110 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVTQT)
Limited Slip Differential, Rear Chrysler......GL-5*
All TEMPS......80W-90 [2] [3]
SAE 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube (AGLQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVGQT)
75W-90 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGRQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-110 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVTQT)
Limited Slip Differential, Rear Dana 70......GL-5*
All TEMPS......80W-90 [2] [3]
SAE 80W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube (AGLQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVGQT)
75W-90 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGRQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-110 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVTQT)
Transfer Case,NP241LD......AF2
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
Transfer Case,NP208......AF2
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
Transfer Case,NP208......AF3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Transfer Case,NP208......AP3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Transfer Case,NP241HD......AF2
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
Transfer Case,NP241HD......AP3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Transfer Case,NP241LD......AP3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Transfer Case,NP241HD......AF3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Transfer Case,NP241LD......AF3
Signature Series Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (ATFQT)
Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATD1G)
OE Multi-Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (OTFQT)
Transfer Case,NP205......GL-5
Above -9 F......90
SEVERE GEAR 75W-90 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVGQT)
75W-90 Synthetic Long Life Gear Lube (FGRQT)
SEVERE GEAR 75W-110 Synthetic EP Lubricant (SVTQT)
Transfer Case,NP205......SJ
Above 32 F......50
Synthetic Powershift Transmission Fluid SAE 50 (CTL05)
Transfer Case,NP205......GL-5
Above 90 F......140
No AMSOIL Product Recommendation
Transfer Case,NP205......GL-5
Below -9 F......80W
No AMSOIL Product Recommendation
Transfer Case,NP205......SJ
Below 32 F......30
Formula 4-Stroke® 10W-30/SAE 30 Small Engine Oil (ASEQT)
Fluids
Clutch Fluid......HB
AMSOIL Brake Fluid DOT-3 (BF3SN) [4]
Power Steering Fluid......PS
Power Steering Fluid (PSFCN) [5]
Brake Fluid......HB
AMSOIL Brake Fluid DOT-3 (BF3SN) [4]

[1] SAE 10W-30 recommended below -18 C (0 F) with block
heater only.
[2] Limited Slip Identification: Lift both rear wheels,
turn a wheel and other will rotate in same direction.
[3] With controlled slip, add 6.5%
Mopar Trac-loc additive or equivalent
[4] Hydraulic Brake Fluid, DOT 3
P/N 04318080AB or 04318081AB, meeting MS-4574
[5] Mopar P/N 4883077, Spec No. MS5931




FILTERS:



Oil Filter 25,000-Mile Ea Oil Filter (EAO80)
Oil Filter WIX 51607 Oil Filter
Fuel Filter WIX 33379 Fuel Filter
Transmission Filter WIX 58707 Trans Filter





NGK PLUGS AND WIRESETS:



No Recommendations





WIPER BLADES:




Blade Class

Driver

Passenger

ExactFit T181
ExactFit T182 T182
ExactFit T181
NeoForm T16180 T16180
Winter T37180 T37180





CHASSIS LUBRICATION:






CAPACITIES:

Engine, with filter..........13 quarts [1]
Cooling System, AT Initial Fill..........17.4 quarts
AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant
Cooling System, MT Initial Fill..........16.4 quarts
AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant
Automatic Transmission, A500 Initial Fill..........4 quarts
Automatic Transmission, A518(46RH) Initial Fill..........4 quarts
Automatic Transmission, A998(31RH) Initial Fill..........4 quarts
Automatic Transmission, A999(32RH) Initial Fill..........4 quarts
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
4 speed A518(46RH)..........10.1 quarts
3 speed A999(32RH)..........8.6 quarts
4 speed A500..........10.1 quarts
3 speed A998(31RH)..........8.6 quarts
Manual Transmission, G360 (5-SPD)..........7 pints
Differential, Spicer 44 Front..........5.7 pints
Differential, Spicer 60 Front..........6.6 pints
Differential, Chrysler Rear..........4.4 pints
Differential, Dana 60 Rear..........5.9 pints
Differential, Dana 70 Rear..........7 pints
Transfer Case, NP241HD..........5.9 pints
Transfer Case, NP205..........4.4 pints
Transfer Case, NP208..........5.9 pints
Transfer Case, NP241LD..........4.6 pints

[1] After refill check oil level.




TORQUES:

Oil Drain Plug.....44 ft/lbs
Manual Transmission G360 5-SPD
Fill Plug NA ft/lbs
Drain Plug NA ft/lbs
Manual Transmission
Fill Plug NA ft/lbs
Drain Plug NA ft/lbs
Manual Transmission 5-SPD
Fill Plug 30 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 30 ft/lbs
Manual Transmission A833 4-SPD
Fill Plug 15 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 35 ft/lbs
Manual Transmission NP435 4-SPD
Fill Plug 35 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 35 ft/lbs
Transfer Case NP205/241
Fill Plug 40 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 40 ft/lbs

Transfer Case NP208
Fill Plug 18 ft/lbs
Drain Plug 18 ft/lbs

[RCCUMMINS89]

Run it as is.... again, the part that is not ideal is the S366 for a primary. Too small of a primary slows spool ability. Think of it running too small of exhaust or too long of an exhaust. Running 2 turbos in its nature is more restrictive than running one and therefore the proper turbos/housings have to be matched in order for them to flow correctly.

Now... that set up SHOULD (depending upon actual injector choice) run clean and cool. HOWEVER, it would of spooled a little faster and ran harder with a small S400 as a primary.

Many folks have replaced their S366 with S472 chargers in other applications and gained a faster spool, and a lot more power.



HOWEVER, it'll run "good" with that set up.... it's just not ideal. It is also a set up that would be very hard to make 400 on. If you don't like how it runs, call them and see what they would recommend to change it.

[dazedandconfused]

Off subject but I see you running around Walton and saw you a few weeks ago maybe pulling into the elementary school as I was leaving with my daughter. Your Duramax is easy to spot. I always try to wave but you never know what I'll be driving.

[Sutter1stgen]

I ran a 60mm hx35 with a s366/68-1.10t4 twin setup. Worse possible setup out there. It kept +40s at 1250, and DDP3s would have caused a serious meltdown.

+40s with the above mentioned twin setup got me 255/555 at a clean, slightly backed off tune. Bare minimum setup I'd run would be
a hx35/hx55 combo. I gained so much flow and power it wasn't even funny. Had a hard time getting to 1200 with the ddp3s.

[flyin6]

Off subject but I see you running around Walton and saw you a few weeks ago maybe pulling into the elementary school as I was leaving with my daughter. Your Duramax is easy to spot. I always try to wave but you never know what I'll be driving.

What do you drive?
I live just down that road on the right