Water Injection

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Water Injection

Postby 93flatbed » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:02 pm

Who all is pushing water/meth in their engines? What kind of set ups are you using? I'm mainly looking for nozzle sizing and at what pressure you guys are pushing it in. I came across a good deal today on a high pressure pump, so I bought it. 400-600 psi operating range. I figure it will atomize well.
93 W250. Waiting on EFI live to come out with a ve version.
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Re: Water Injection

Postby skilletky » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:43 am

what all you got done to the truck? are you looking for more power? cooler egts? or both? i ran a stg3 snow performance kit with 2 of the 625ml nozzles and loved it.
92 d350, arp's, orings, 150lb springs, 4200 gsk ,ground pin ,64/71/14 ,ddp inj's, ats manifold, tim's tubez, ats trans, FASS, locker, timing + a tooth, bcdd intake

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Re: Water Injection

Postby diesel freak01 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:06 pm

Something I learned while working on the tractor water system. Buy enderle alcohol injection nozzles. Pretty cheap and lots of options for tips.
1993 d350 ctd drw 2wd auto
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Re: Water Injection

Postby 93flatbed » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:47 pm

I talked to the tech department at devil's own. They told my for my rough estimates of 75lbs boost, 135~cfm, 3,800rpm I will need 22gph of flow. Spilt it in two stages of 6gph and then 14gph comes in.

Sounds like a butt load of extra going in my poor engine! I worry about the artificial extra timming I would be adding at that point. I might as well break out the welder and fix the head to the block?

I have looked at every thread on other sites, sift threw the bs. Find a few answers but they are all high rpm trucks. Rpm plays a huge factor in injecting stuff.




I should have bought a Honda!
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Re: Water Injection

Postby 1992gen1_fan » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:00 am

The pump in my Snow stg2 kit says 220psi. I'm using the medium size nozzle from the kit. I don't remember the size off the top of my head.
'92 Dodge w350, 5 spd, Dana 80 3.54, timing spacer, ground stock pin&3200 spring, vgt, hungry diesel piston pump, water/meth, Honed stock injectors, 4" turbo back, light IP adjustments
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Re: Water Injection

Postby BC847 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:36 am

In most cases, for the nozzle to work correctly (at its rating), you'll need 100psig over that boost pressure. With that, if you're running a max boost pressure of 50psig, you'll need 150psig at the nozzle. Such is to ensure correct atomization of the water.

If one runs two nozzles, you'll need double the volume of water so as to maintain the 100psig over the boost number.

You'll want to install the nozzle(s) as close to the intake valves as is possible so as to reduce any falling-out of the atomized water due to impingement on any surfaces in the intake tract.

You'll want to adjust the mix of water/methanol based on the intended use of the engine. A mix of predominately water will give the best cooling effect. Some suggest not completely eliminating the Methanol content as that may increase the chances of Quenching the flame. With that, many report good performance with running your basic windshield washing fluid (typically around 20 ~ 30% Methanol). A 50/50% mix of W/M will give you ZERO cooling effect and will most likely increase your EGTs.

As with anything else, your performance gains will vary depending on your setup. In my mess, I've historically seen 0 HP gains but did see some increases in torque.

Generally speaking, most ramp-up the volume of w/M till the engine begins to buck, then back off a little from there. You'll have to play with it a while to get it right for your mess.

IIRC, Begal built a super high pressure system with all the bells and whistles, only to back off a lot due to too much getting into the crankcase.
David

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Re: Water Injection

Postby Hansen01 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:35 pm

I run Devilsown's water injection system on mine with both nozzles that they send you. Other than there controller(that they said they updated sinse my first one) i have not had any problems.
Bad news bears when the controller sticks wide open tho :lol: injects bout a gallon of w/m in about 30 seconds :lol:
1990 dodge W250 cummins 6 speed. 4in diamond eye, a turbo,and a pump :D
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Re: Water Injection

Postby blacksheep » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:39 am

BC847 wrote:IIRC, Begal built a super high pressure system with all the bells and whistles, only to back off a lot due to too much getting into the crankcase.


i havent seen that name in a couple years. is begal still on the forums? i have been gone for sometime
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Re: Water Injection

Postby PToombs » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:31 pm

He stops in with a few words of wisdom every now and then. Maybe he got caught stalking that girl and is in jail and only gets a computer when he's been good. Hard to say......... ;)
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
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Re: Water Injection

Postby ellis93 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:24 pm

PToombs wrote:He stops in with a few words of wisdom every now and then. Maybe he got caught stalking that girl and is in jail and only gets a computer when he's been good. Hard to say......... ;)

Probably said "twatwaffles" one two many times :lol:
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Water Injection

Postby 93flatbed » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:43 pm

Thanks David. I'm not looking for horse powerz. I'm just predicting egt issues once this whole mess of fuel I have and 3 spinning things try to get going.

I figure I will fallow devils advice and go from there. One big and one small on each if the intake pipes.

Reading on others sites there are guys having luck with pre turbo injecting. I do not have the stones to do that! 100+k RPM turbo with droplets hitting it makes my pucker sting tight!

Reading back on this forum, it gets a bit whishy washy. Lets say a guy is going for a fuel record. If a guy is pushing water in is it still a fuel record?
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Re: Water Injection

Postby 93flatbed » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:47 pm

Begal is still alive. Not in prison. He did some wicked kewl injecting! My personal, non educated opinion is that he had great pressure but used the wrong type of nozzle. The ones he selected did great in a big surface area. He was injecting them in the stock non ic cross pipe....
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Re: Water Injection

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:57 pm

93flatbed wrote: If a guy is pushing water in is it still a fuel record?



I consider a fuel only record just that... fuel only.
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Re: Water Injection

Postby rockmike » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:38 am

I run the snow stage 2 kit.Run the -20 washer fluid,I have put a pint of "heet" wich is 100% methanol in the mix this gets me about 50/50 water to meth mixure and I feel the power difference using the heet.The kit came with a #4 and two #6 nozzles.Using #6 if I bring in the w/m at anything below 20 psi it bucks a bit and uses a lot of w/m so I drilled out the #4 and made my own #5 this nozzle allows me to bring the w/m in at 18 psi and max press. at 25psi and no bucking or knocking.I don't see much power increase unless I get the mix to 50/50.It does help cool the egt's a bit though just using the -20 washer fluid.
93 d350 extra cab 5 speed dually.

Mods: hx35,rotated fuel pin,bosch 190 inj.,BHAF with smooth intake tube,3200 rpm spring,M&H dynamic timing spacer,isspro EGT and boost gauge,Auto meter tach, fuel press. gauge.Diamond eye 4" exhaust,Sno Stage 2 W/M kit.

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Re: Water Injection

Postby Begle1 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:38 pm

Begle ended up getting a real job and buying a house and finding a girlfriend... The last thing that he did with his truck was put that goofy 431ve on it that he still doesn't have a control system for.

With those impingement nozzles, my system atomized so much better than any other water injection system, that it's really apples and oranges with what anybody else has. And I never had any dyno testing or track tuning to really figure out anything conclusive; I don't even know if the wet oil I experienced was more due to really loose stock pistons or the atomization.

One day I'll get all my projects on that truck done and really dial it into that daily-driveable 12.0 index I've always wanted... I'll have time after I get married and have kids, right?

I did just pop my head gasket, so I'll have a chance to look at the pistons soon, see what they look like.
1990 D-250 Regular Cab: Tweaked injection pump, built transmission, a cataclysmic charlie foxtrot of electronics, the most intense street-ran water injection system in the country, and some more unique stuff.
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