High volume piston lift-pump

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High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:01 pm

I keep seeing a number of posts elsewhere suggesting the high volume piston lift pump will provide more fuel than the VE will ever use.

Was I doing something wrong with the pump I was running?
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby fatty » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:06 pm

IIRC, Eric's pump has a 1.25" piston, whereas the "regular" piston pump has a 1" piston. Bigger area=more fuel flow.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:22 pm

The pump that you used back in the day had a 1" plunger. The "High Volume Pump" that I use, has a 1.25" plunger. We have replaced a number of those particular Cummins pumps..........it is quite common for 400hp trucks (and even under) to be pulling the Cummins pump down to zero psi. Generally that 0 turns into 8ish on average with our 15 psi pump.


The lowest psi that I have had reported back from using our pump that we use is 6-7 psi. Which is what I have pulled mine down to.


Would I suggest our pump on YOUR set up? No....your injectors are ginormous. Not to start a debate in a different direction, but I still feel that your set up could make the same power with smaller injectors though as well. And don't let me take away from the fact that your setup has made more power than any other 12mm ve.......this is a mere matter of my personal opinion from setting up as many trucks as I have helped with.


Like you mentioned on Facebook.......about sucking the bottom out of a piston pump has a tremendous amount of truth to it. A piston pump is rpm driven, and therefore proper tuning is the key. Large injectors has the flushing the toilet affect that can inhibit the pump to ever catch back up.

On my truck, I can change sustained inlet psi by 3-4 psi just by changing fuel pin profiles. Now..........as we all know, the slower the fueling comes on ( in a hot ve ) the more benefits across the entire rpm range.




Now, this all comes back up to the debate of how much inlet pressure is needed to gain maximum cc.......... according to the test benching I've done.....not much. Just like BC has shown, the highest 12mm ve on record (his) did that with only 12 psi of inlet pressure. I gained no power upping my wot psi, as long as my case pressure was maintaining......
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:40 pm

fatty wrote:IIRC, Eric's pump has a 1.25" piston, whereas the "regular" piston pump has a 1" piston. Bigger area=more fuel flow.


FWIW, I'm very familiar with the high volume pump: (mid 2009) http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/foru ... mp-176472/ ;)

Eric, I did qualify my statement with "with large enough injectors". Folks commenting afterward apparently missed that. ;)


Perhaps my point is that Eric could perhaps do himself a favor and break it down over there, like he's broke it down here. Sooner or later, there's gonna be that one person that will screw up and swear it's all your fault. ;)
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
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Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:42 pm

BC847 wrote: Sooner or later, there's gonna be that one person that will screw up and swear it's all your fault. ;)



:?: In which way? Guess I'm not following what you are saying.


I try and do my best to be up front with a product. However, one can't be everywhere at one time.

Now as far as Facebook goes........Trying to explain things and have things stick is literally impossible. Things roll off a page and fall into the abyss of have never happened with in an hour or two (generally). There are also many users on Facebook that simply scroll through so quickly, that it is common practice for things to be come misinformed and unintentionally twisted.
Last edited by RCCUMMINS89 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:49 pm

It's my opinion, that folks over there have accepted you as the guru of the 1st gen, and that's cool. It's just that those same folks will turn right around and slaughter you if things don't pan out the way THEY think it should based, on feedback they see from other customers. And by that I mean: How many threads have you read where it was quit apparent that the author was soliciting positive feedback on a particular part upgrade. They pretty much see only that which supports their opinion, and don't always see the negative side. Does what I'm saying make sense?

I am by no means questioning the product or its vendor, I'm simply suggesting one be careful. Folks will hang you with your very word. :)
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
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Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:52 pm

And let me repeat: It's cool that your efforts, research & development of your ware are paying off. I just don't want to see it tarnished by the ignorance of the customer.
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
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Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:53 pm

Ah, you edited while I was posting. :mrgreen:
David

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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:03 pm

I completely understand where you are coming from BC, and I do agree.

Unfortunately these things are a second hand nature of not being able to be everywhere at the same time. Do I may miss posts and not correct people as well? Of course I do.

Now in saying that.........the whole "the kit will support all the fuel any 12mm ve needs". I somewhat feel that is a fairly accurate statement.......as I doubt there are over a handful of 12mm ve trucks in the country that may not be true on. What is that, probably less than 1 in a thousand non stock trucks? As I know there are a tremendous amounts of ve trucks still being played with in the country.... We recently just sold our 600th piston lift pump kit.... and by all means that is a small percentage of what is out there.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:04 pm

However, BC - Thank you for posting this thread. :mrgreen:
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:22 pm

Off topic but. . . . .

"the problems not the pump it's the size of the line feeding the pump.. all I can say is anyone asking for advise do your research! it's out there... I don't understand why people build trucks backwards. start at the fuel tank and work your way to the pump . pull the pump have it worked on and get it flowed! then you will know what size injectors you need.... it's not rocket science!"
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:52 pm

For the record.......I was not the one who said that.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby oldestof11 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:56 pm

David, you are the first HVLP piston lift pump user I know of. Your whole build is a huge inspiration of mine. I just hope to be faster than you sooner rather than later. :lol:

Eric is the first to market the HVLP PLP because he made it a "package" deal.

Eric has been chosen as the 1st Gen guru by the masses. Nothing against Eric but if Eric doesn't say one way or the other, it isn't gospel. I have many time recommended upgrading line size but it falls on deaf ears. It is a blessing and a curse.
Jon
93 D250~ Mismatch of cheap parts, trying to look fast going slow
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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby BC847 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:08 pm

RCCUMMINS89 wrote:For the record.......I was not the one who said that.

Yeah, I didn't mean for that quote to appear as though it came from you. ;) It was by another in that thread.

I just thought it was a unique way of building a fuel system. I dunno. I guess the way it's worded, one should start with the fuel tank you have as a goal. Then build from there.

Perhaps I shouldn't have hit that doobie so hard back in '76.
David

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Re: High volume piston lift-pump

Postby PToombs » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:12 pm

You guys aren't kidding about line size making a big difference. I went from 10-11 psi on the stock line to my HVLP (stock Case Ag pump), to a constant 15-16 psi at all RPMs when I changed up to a 1/2" line.
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
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