14mm unreliability

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14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:19 pm

So why is it? And is it most unreliable when running a more radical cam plate than stock? As for cams, what all is out there (2.8, 4mm etc).
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
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Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:20 pm

Any benefit to running stock 12mm H/R with a 4mm cam plate?
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
Muffler delete

Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
spencerdiesel
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby DMan1198 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:59 pm

I can't remember where I read it, but the 14mm h/r causes more pressure on the rollers which without adequate fuel supply causes excess heat which warpage resulting in things sticking, and wrecking the pump. There was a user who ran a power steering pump as a lift pump, and dual fed the ve, and had pretty decent luck with a 14mm h/r with stock cam plate. He tried that h/r with a 4mm cam plate, and that lift pump, and it still seized. It made some great flow numbers until it imploded though. I'm going to try a 4mm camplate with my ve 24v for kicks just to see if there's a difference. Though that won't be for quite a while
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm

Ok cool to know. Know if anyones ever ground the factory plate to their liking?
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
Muffler delete

Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
spencerdiesel
14mm rotor
 
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby JQmile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:55 am

Dang Spencer, you're getting things rolling again here....a lot of the first questions I had. Basically, every 14mm blows up but mine :D

Naw, just messing with ya. Basically, the only place in town right now for 14mm heads is Rocken Tech, and they are kind of hit or miss as far as reliability goes. I know a few who were OK, and others were junk right out of the box. Check out "Operation guaranteed to blow up" further down the page to see how unreliable 14mm's can be. I have a KTA head and rotor on mine, which were made years ago and aren't available anymore, and seemed to be reliable, so I think the potential is there. I also know a few who have had years out of Rocken Tech 14mm's. Basically, expect to throw your money away, and if it works it's a plus. :roll:

Anyways, if it's power you're after, a 12mm with water-meth can pull off 500rwhp, and that's not bad....just my two cents.
1989 D250 2wd. Scheid 14mm VE pump and 5x25's, J&H Performance 47RH trans with Suncoast manual valvebody, dual wastegates, 62/65/14 S300, NX Dual Stage nitrous, 487 on fuel, 972 on the jug.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby JQmile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:16 am

Also, if you need some motivation, here's a video of how badass a 12mm 4x4 can be, from practically before the Internets were invented LOL....it's GLHS's truck, went low 13's with basic mods including the driver mod ;) Guy had the launch and shifting down! 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbd26N1u7gI
1989 D250 2wd. Scheid 14mm VE pump and 5x25's, J&H Performance 47RH trans with Suncoast manual valvebody, dual wastegates, 62/65/14 S300, NX Dual Stage nitrous, 487 on fuel, 972 on the jug.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:46 am

And that truck was a getrag??? How many chargers did he have to spool that fast with so much timing?? 103 in the 1/4?!

Yea I read the guaranteed blowup thread a couple months ago, it was enlightening for me. I also read a thread where RC found a cam that was supposed to be 3.2 mm lift, but didn't measure any different than stock?
Yep I like asking questions. A lot
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
Muffler delete

Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby JQmile » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:43 am

Here's GLHS's sig from over on DTR, as you can see, it's not anything crazy. His truck is one of those that sold me on a 62mm turbo too, I figured a 12mm couldn't make any more than that anyways, fuel-wise. If it was a lighter truck, I bet it could hit 12's. He might chime in, I think he's still on here.

1992 W-250 ext. cab 5 spd, 3.54, SPS 62/71/14, 46 psi max, ported ATS manifold, Joe Hellmann intercooler, 4" into 5" exhaust, Giles fuel pin, DDP custom injectors, Air Dog, Banks 3rd gen High Ram, Icebox CAI, timing 2.15 mm, Fluidampner, South Bend 13" 4 puck single disk, Snow water/meth, 02 16x8 alum. wheels on Dana 80 w/disks, 455 hp/1005 trq uncorrected, 13.34 @ 102, Denver CO, Bandimere 5800 ft. in July 06. 472 diesel/520 water/meth May 08
1989 D250 2wd. Scheid 14mm VE pump and 5x25's, J&H Performance 47RH trans with Suncoast manual valvebody, dual wastegates, 62/65/14 S300, NX Dual Stage nitrous, 487 on fuel, 972 on the jug.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby PToombs » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:58 pm

The cam plate isn't any thicker, the difference is the lows are deeper so the plunger drops more to get the travel.
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:57 am

Thanks for the clarification PToombs. What's the highest hp 12mm number made on W/M?

JQmile didn't you run a 13.4 on stock non IC sticks and stock turbo with the d250?
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
Muffler delete

Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
spencerdiesel
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:53 pm

599 on water/meth and nitrous. I think it is like 523 or something on water/meth.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby JQmile » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:20 pm

spencerdiesel wrote:
JQmile didn't you run a 13.4 on stock non IC sticks and stock turbo with the d250?


No, best power I made was 448rwhp through the 727 on 6x16's, a 62mm, and nitrous, but never got a good dragstrip time.
When I got the truck, the injection pump had been replaced, and I didn't think much of it. When we finally took the cover off to
skip a tooth, we found that the pump was installed a tooth retarded. Checked it with a light and it was only at 9 degrees. Soooo...who
knows what kind of power it might of actually made with 20 degrees more timing :shock:

As far as I know, the king of fast on stock parts is C12h26, he's broke 400 on w/m with stock sticks through a stock 727 and ran 13's too.
He doesn't get on much anymore.
1989 D250 2wd. Scheid 14mm VE pump and 5x25's, J&H Performance 47RH trans with Suncoast manual valvebody, dual wastegates, 62/65/14 S300, NX Dual Stage nitrous, 487 on fuel, 972 on the jug.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby spencerdiesel » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:18 am

Some dang big numbers there!

So if the only hope for a 550 + rwhp 14mm is a KTA unit or equivalent, why is there no more aftermarket support?

Not to sound childishly over eager or anything :bounce:
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

H1C/18

Fuel: THD 6x10 VCO sticks, THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw 2 turns in, timing to the head/ >1/4”
Muffler delete

Minimum 60% WMO full time since Sep. 2018
spencerdiesel
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby PToombs » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:35 pm

Nobody wants to support a truck or engine that is over 20 years old. All the big money is in the newer stuff. Dodge sold thousands more of the newer trucks than the 1st gens, so there is more market there too.
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
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Re: 14mm unreliability

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:39 pm

Hey now........


The reality of it is, $400ish bucks for a h/r is nowhere NEAR what it would cost for a quality part. An FYI, the stock h/r from Bosch is about $800 for a new one.

Very, very few folks are going to spend $1000 for a h/r that'll stand up, when the rest of the pump is still being pushed past its limits.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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