Another new guy with questions...

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Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:32 pm

I've been lurking around doing a bunch of reading here, the things in my signature are what I've changed so far. Well, aside from brakes , tires and such. I'm looking for advice on where to go from here. Also, having an issue with the engine running very rough on cold mornings when I forget to plug it in. I'm out at sea right now, but researching here I should try unplugging the ksb.

So, as for further mods: I'm thinking about bumping the pump timing a bit. I can't decide if I should get my injectors opened up/rebuilt, or get something else. I know I need more turbo to clean up the smoke I already have, and I want to do a water/air inter cooler.

What are your thoughts? I need to be able to tow, but I probably won't be hauling more than 10-15k. I forgot to add this is a five speed, also looking for clutch recommendations. Any and all help is appreciated.
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby CumminsPower59 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:26 am

Welcome to the site!

laneends wrote:I've been lurking around doing a bunch of reading here, the things in my signature are what I've changed so far. Well, aside from brakes , tires and such. I'm looking for advice on where to go from here. Also, having an issue with the engine running very rough on cold mornings when I forget to plug it in. I'm out at sea right now, but researching here I should try unplugging the ksb.


My 91 was originally non-intercooled as yours is, and it has always been rough running/cold blooded when it's not plugged in. Why? I don't know, always been that way, even when it was stock. It currently has a near new intercooled pump (205) on it and it's the same, and I have the KSB hot wired so I can take advantage of the timing advance. If your pump is an original non-intercooled pump (103-114), it'll start without 12 volts at the KSB since it is at full advance, but it will need it to retard the timing back when warmed up.

laneends wrote:So, as for further mods: I'm thinking about bumping the pump timing a bit. I can't decide if I should get my injectors opened up/rebuilt, or get something else. I know I need more turbo to clean up the smoke I already have, and I want to do a water/air inter cooler.


A quality set of Bosch injectors doesn't hurt anything, I put 370 marines in mine and it works very well, since they have the correct spray angle for the large bowl pistons. They burn pretty clean if I keep my foot out of it ;) I got mine through The Hungry Diesel, since they specialize in 1st gen products. As for cooling the air, air to water aftercoolers are out there (ag and industrial applications), but a second gen intercooler is a lot less expensive, I have $150 in mine. You'll have to do some core support modifications, and do something with the compressor outlet on the turbo, but for the "best bang for the buck" it's hard to beat. I have pictures of the install in my build thread.

laneends wrote:I forgot to add this is a five speed, also looking for clutch recommendations. Any and all help is appreciated.


South Bend Clutch makes a great towing clutch, part number 13125-OK. 3" wide organic facings, it's rated at 400hp/800lb-ft. Stock feel, way better than stock hold. It's what I'm running in my 91. There are others out there too that are just as good.

Hope this helps ya out :thumright:
Ike

91 W350 SRW, 3.07's, NV4500, 370's, THD LPPP, Super HX40, 2nd gen IC swap, BHAF, Isspro's, 2" lift, 285's on 3rd gen 17"'s.
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby spencerdiesel » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:03 pm

Welcome! Water to air as in engine coolant?
I'd second Cumminspower59 with the air to air. You'll be cooling with temps less than 100 usually, where as coolant will near 190.
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

Fuel: THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw bottomed @ 3 turns, timing bumped 3/16"
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:02 pm

spencerdiesel wrote:Welcome! Water to air as in engine coolant?
I'd second Cumminspower59 with the air to air. You'll be cooling with temps less than 100 usually, where as coolant will near 190.

I was going to give it it's own radiator and pump, I mostly want to run this setup because I read about it alot on this forum, but it seems like no one actually does it...

Thank you for your input cumminspower59, from what I've read the 370's would be a good fit for me.

Since I'm in north Idaho often in my free time I think I need to set up a lunch date with the hungry diesel guy...
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:26 pm

So, how much horsepower will 370 marine injectors support, and should I worry about injectors before or after a turbo? From my research, an s300 would be ideal, but how big of a difference is there between the s300 and an he351? I'm new to both turbocharged engines as well as cummins engines... and I am not fluent in all these numbers thrown around. What else should I do? I know my next step is getting my governor spring in, I'm waiting on a gasket, and should I order a "hot screw" or just chase my boogered up threads?
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby CumminsPower59 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:26 am

laneends wrote:So, how much horsepower will 370 marine injectors support, and should I worry about injectors before or after a turbo? From my research, an s300 would be ideal, but how big of a difference is there between the s300 and an he351? I'm new to both turbocharged engines as well as cummins engines... and I am not fluent in all these numbers thrown around. What else should I do? I know my next step is getting my governor spring in, I'm waiting on a gasket, and should I order a "hot screw" or just chase my boogered up threads?



370's can move some fuel in stock form, and with flow honing, even more. Eric (The Hungry Diesel) explained to me that 370's measure out to about 55lpm which factory non-ic injectors are about 45lpm. The 370's in mine are in stock form, and with a nearly maxed out 205 IP, I can suck the fuel pressure down from 17psi to 4 psi, build 44lbs of boost, and bury my 1800 degree pyro. My truck is not a power house by any means, but for what it is, it's pretty darn quick. I though about cutting the fuel pump back a bit, and see how it all works out. Tribal knowledge is that stock non-ic injectors can support 300+ hp pretty easily.

Anyways, I have no experience with the S300 family or HE351CW's, as I am running a Super HX40. If I had to choose a different turbo as a single, I'd probably get a S362FMW or the like. Since I am thinking of compounds in the future, the Super B, or S357 (57/65/14cm2) would be my choice as I'd get a S472 at a later date to pair it up with. There are a number of folks on here that are very knowledgeable with turbos and the like that can help out better than I can.

Get the whole gasket kit, DGK 121 and either a stock fuel screw or the "hot screw" when you pick up your governor spring. Reason I say the stock screw is that with the stock non-ic IP, you can hit run-away with the stock fuel screw, so the "hot screw" isn't really needed, but if you got to replace it anyways, it may be cheaper than the original. I've built several IP's, and have yet to toss an OE fuel screw for chewed up threads, not saying yours is/is not fixable, but as long as the threads aren't totally chewed up, they can be cleaned up with the correct die or even a jamb nut in a pinch ;)
Ike

91 W350 SRW, 3.07's, NV4500, 370's, THD LPPP, Super HX40, 2nd gen IC swap, BHAF, Isspro's, 2" lift, 285's on 3rd gen 17"'s.
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby spencerdiesel » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:51 pm

I only know some basics (very basic) on the 351 and s300. The he351 has a 60mm cold side and is a great mild upgrade for us 1st gen guys.

Downsides - 9cm exhaust housing. It is undivided, which I hear makes it about like a 12cm divided as far as spool/restriction. A tight housing makes it easier to pop a head gasket. If the HG is stock, I'd stay under 38-40 psi. Less with advanced timing.
Upside - Very quick spool, and pretty efficient for having equal or almost equal wheel sizes (I believe 60 compressor and 60 hot side).

Don't know much about the 300, other than the base size is a 57 cold side and it's really efficient. There are s300's with bigger wheels. You could probably get away with a little more boost with a 300 because it has lower drive pressures, but I think it's map is around 40 psi as well.
1992 W250, 5 speed, 4.10, Ext. cab Ext. bed, 12.5k winch, 75 gal. fuel tank

Fuel: THD 12 psi piston pump, THD fuel pin, 366 spring, fuel screw bottomed @ 3 turns, timing bumped 3/16"
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby PToombs » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:33 pm

I got right close to 400hp with my 370's. Then I had Eric flow hone them. :twisted:
pete

Just enough power to break everything behind the crankshaft.
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:06 pm

I know since I have a 5 speed truck I'm never going to be all that quick, although if the clutch would hold I think she'll scoot starting in third... so I'm really aiming to be able to break the tires loose at freeway speeds, and be cool enough to tow my toys. I'm not opposed to spending money to do it right the first time. I am worried about the head gasket as I was seeing 45 psi towing my sleds and sxs. The boost has dropped since adding the m&h timing spacer, and the turbo lights sooner. This makes me want to try " bumping it an eighth". Exhaust temps dropped as well. I need to read up more on this turbo nonsense, I am really confused there and want to do it right the first time. This is mostly a highway cruiser, and the gearing seems a bit low, foot to the floor in fifth at 3000 rpm I can only hit 85 mph. I know I'm all over with my questions, but I don't want to make 40 different threads. Thank you for all your input so far , especially Cumminspower59. Definitely need to talk to Eric (hey that's my name!) When I get back on dry land.
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Mon May 15, 2017 8:05 am

I figure it's time to revive this thread... a couple things have changed but not much. I installed a LPLP from THD, huge difference! Pulls much harder up top and the egts will hit 1500 in no time. I also got some more travel out of the throttle linkage, big improvement there as well. The old girl will now rev to 3400 rpm, and I still haven't put my 366 spring in yet. Also picked up a fuel pressure gauge and a hot screw I have yet to install. Truck is getting the south bend clutch previously recommended and a rear main seal

So, I still need someone smarter than I to tell me what to buy in the way of injectors and turbo. Still so much to learn. I'm itching for more power, but I can't use the fuel I have without getting seriously hot. Help me out guys!
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby Remps » Tue May 16, 2017 12:55 am

Are you sure that is enough clutch for 420-470ish hp? Or do you have a hp goal in mind? I'm assuming you will be running a pretty much "maxed" pump with your goal of freeway burnouts. :lol: May never have a slipping issue, especially with a open differential. I have no experience with the clutch mentioned. Can't go wrong with compound turbos, most guys that do twins never go back to a single, but aren't "necessary" unless you are doing some hardcore towing in the mountains. I wouldn't bother with a he351 the way you drive, it chokes bad above 3K under load. Great little 35 psi towing turbos, or with some mods in a compound setup. A S362 FMW or SXE and a 70ish lpm 155* spray angle 5 hole would be capable of mid 400's for hp. Sounds like you have 4:10 gears, so you'd have absolutely no problem spooling a 62 towing, not that 3:54's would be an issue either. Better look into headstuds and valvesprings as well, and decide if you are going to jump a tooth on the IP while doing the KDP and checking the case bolts.
'90 D250 R/C,727,IC,6x.009's,1/8" bump,fuel psi,straight pipe w/5" stack.
'90 W250 R/C,47rh,K@N,HX35,1/8" bump,2nd gen IC,boost,egt,trans temp.3.07's.
'96 2500 S/C L/B,2wd,NV5600,3.54 L/S,cai,egt,pacbrake,mbrp exhaust,10 plate.
Bring back the Bank of Canada, PRE- 1974.
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Thu May 18, 2017 12:57 am

Honestly not sure of much of anything these days.... the clutch I bought is rated for 400HP , so I probably should stay near there for now. The more I read about turbos the more my head spins. I think some version of the s300 would be a good fit, but things get a little muddy for me selecting wheel and housing sizes. The truck is not strictly a toy, I have been daily driving it, I do tow things but nothing too extreme, but I do like holding my road speed on the hills. I'm thinking the stock injectors are probably OK for a bit longer, as I understand they can get me near 400HP but maybe there is something cleaner and cooler that would work better.

The truck is a 5 speed so quick spooling is important. At this point I either need to decide on a good turbo, or maybe just settle for the easy out and get an hx35 for now, and get a small improvement for not much money. I'm a believer in buy once cry once however.

For the record, I suppose freeway burnouts are not really important, I just want a usable truck that can run circles around my buddies mildly modded 07. Not blacking out the sun is a plus too. Truck cleans up decent as is, but only if you roll on the power, and I know I have more fuel I can give her when I fix my buggered up fuel screw.

I really appreciate those that have taken the time to comment, and this website has been monumental in helping me go from stock, to where I am now.

Also, THD's Eric: I see you are in spirit lake, I just moved to Athol recently, any way you have time for me to swing by sometime to pick your brain? Just about everything I have so far I've got from you!
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Sat May 20, 2017 9:23 am

No one else wants to chime in? Been doing alot or research and I have a few more questions for you... how much more static timing are people running with the m&h timing spacer? Head studs are in the works, should I go A1 (sounds like easier install), or ARP? Do I need valve springs? Or is it just a good idea? I guess I didn't think I did if I wasn't turning 4000+ rpm or installing an exhaust brake....

So here's an update, I ordered a water to air intercooler, some more gushes ( drive pressure and air/water temp for the cooler)

I'm not sure but I'm leaning toward THD's s362sxe.
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby laneends » Sat May 20, 2017 10:07 am

Also, how come after adjusting my throttle linkage and installing a lpplp I can now rev to 3400rpm? I haven't even put in my 366 spring yet (waiting on gaskets)
1990 D-250 with getrag 360: pyro, boost, volt, oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp gauges, hot screw, 366 gov spring, THD pin, M&H dynamic timing spacer, throttle linkage adjusted for full travel, 4" turbo back exhaust, THD's LPPLP, BHAF, south bend clutch. THD 5x13 comps, 362sxe, 3" crossover, pump to the head
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Re: Another new guy with questions...

Postby Remps » Tue May 23, 2017 8:10 pm

You'll probably hit at least 4k rpm after you put a 3200 spring in it, and it'll climb thru the upper rpms way faster than it does now. Just takes a little time to get used to, especially when shifting. And 350-400 hp in a 1st gen will beat the crap out of a programmed megacab from 50-100 mph for sure. I wouldn't do anything but a 62, unless planning on twins later. Both my 90's are kinda grouchy the colder it get compared to the 93's and the 96, I think it's the slightly lower compression and/or piston bowl design. The small bowl engines cold start easier and smoother.
'90 D250 R/C,727,IC,6x.009's,1/8" bump,fuel psi,straight pipe w/5" stack.
'90 W250 R/C,47rh,K@N,HX35,1/8" bump,2nd gen IC,boost,egt,trans temp.3.07's.
'96 2500 S/C L/B,2wd,NV5600,3.54 L/S,cai,egt,pacbrake,mbrp exhaust,10 plate.
Bring back the Bank of Canada, PRE- 1974.
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