Engine rebuild

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Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:26 am

Blew my head gasket last spring and finally got around to replacing it this winter and found some major piston scoring in most of the cylinder walls and its been nothing but money from the there!

Currently the motor is decked .010 and bored .020 with new Mahle pistons installed by Southworth Machine in Eugene Oregon and after some debate I decided to go with a new Hamilton 182-214 Cam and 60# valve springs. I took the head to a different machine shop to get milled locally (Medford) and was told over the phone that there were a few minor stress cracks that were normal and most people run the heads with theses minor cracks... So I say "sure go ahead and mill it". They take off .005 and say its good to go and ready to be picked up.

$190 later I get my head home and start to prep it for paint. After some inspection I find that every exhaust valve seat has a crack to the injector hole. I call around and get the same response, its Junk! Well Ill take the blame on that one. I should have been a little more interested in those minor cracks and inspected the head before I ever took it in the first place! (Non/IC Head for sale!) luckly I was able to score a used 2nd gen head with low miles off a truck that ate piston 6. I get the head with a valve job and milled for $350!

And with a new intercooled head comes new injectors because my old non/ic injectors wont fit! Talking with Eric at THD I went with the comp 5x13's @ 55*'s to match my new pistons.

At this point its a waiting game, motors finished just waiting on delivery as well as the cam, injectors and valve springs. The machine shop that is doing the head work is waiting on the valve springs as well so here I sit...
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby BC847 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:10 am

WELCOME to our forum! 8)

klofdahl wrote:so here I sit...



It's been my experience that enduring those Waiting the the right stuff is, more often than not, well worth it.

Hang in there knowing that because you choose the better, you won't have to do it again later. ;)
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby Richie O » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:49 pm

Pretty common for the 9mm non intercooled heads to crack. Lots of guys just run it. Never had my 89 head off so who knows.
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:26 pm

The 89 head did hold pressure but knowing the time and money ive invested to this point wasent worth the risk! Plus I get new injectors!
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:02 pm

Got the motor back from the machine shop with the bottom end installed and the highest piston protrusion of .027! Spent the last day installing the cam, lifters and most of the accessories.

While I was installing the the IP I decided to advance the timing from the E to the C on the pump gear and pulled the pump as far away from the head as possible which ended up being more than an inch from the stock timing mark. Hopefully this will allow some tuning down the road as I already have an M&H timing spacer and hope it's not too advanced now... Something I forgot to do during the disassembly of the motor was to pull the IP at TDC and can't seem to find anything online that states how to install the pump other that put the motor at TDC and line up the O with letters on the pump gear and the key on the pump shaft?

My 60# valve spring should show up tomorrow so the head can finally milled and valves recessed to .055 per Hamilton specs.

Unfortunately most of my head suds are pitted on the shanks on the water jacket side and will need to be replaced but for now I'm just going to run em to I can get more funds.

All in all things are coming along.

Can anyone possibly give some clarity on the IP install? Just can't for the life of me find any info on it!
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby ellis93 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:36 am

Turn the pump shaft till its keyway is lined with your gear.....install.

If you want to go all technical there's a recessed dot where the pumps shaft seal is and that is where the pump shaft keyway lines up
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:14 pm

Thanks Ellis, that about what I figured. Just couldn't see anything special about pump timing Vs engine timing as long as the key way was matched and the letters on the pump gear were inline with the crank gear O.

Dropped my valve springs off at the machine shop today and should get my head back on Monday. The head had to be milled .010 to clean up where piston 6 smashed the rings into head. and the valves were at .050 before the milling so the valves will be recessed at least .010 to meet Hamilton specs for the 182/214 cam at .055

I also somehow lost a flywheel bolt along the way and I couldn't find one anywhere locally that was an exact match. And with the fear of the crankshaft being out of balanced I ordered 8 new bolts from fastenal for $30. Ouch! Stupid ain't cheap! But still cheaper OEM Cummins or anywhere else I could find... They are grade 10.9 M12 x 1.25 incase you where wondering!
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:31 pm

Got my head back today and found that my valves were recessed more than expected and not as close as hoped.

Int. Exh
#1 .060 .061
#2 .070 .062
#3 .078 .070
#4 .076 .063
#5 .071. .065
#6 .077 .063

If asked them to be at .055 but a few are pretty far from that. And I know for a fact the valve job was done after it was milled flat after removing .010!

Anyone see why I couldn't run the head with the valves recessed this much?
Last edited by klofdahl on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
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Posts: 17
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby Remps » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:50 pm

They didn't say why they were all recessed differently? No reason why it won't work, but if it was my head and the valves were all recessed willy nilly, I'd say screw it and bust out the dremel and do some mild valve unshrouding, and get a little better/quicker airflow at low lift.
'90 D250 R/C,727,IC,6x.009's,1/8" bump,fuel psi,straight pipe w/5" stack.
'90 W250 R/C,47rh,K@N,HX35,1/8" bump,2nd gen IC,boost,egt,trans temp.3.07's.
'96 2500 S/C L/B,2wd,NV5600,3.54 L/S,cai,egt,pacbrake,mbrp exhaust,10 plate.
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby PToombs » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:15 pm

I think I would call the machine shop and ask them why it's like that when you requested them to be at .055. It's possible they were too deep and more would have to have been milled off to bring them up. It never hurts to ask, and if they try to BS you about it then you know to find a different machine shop next time.
pete

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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby BC847 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Be aware that the valve-seats are induction-hardened as part of making the heads. Cutting too far into the seat will get you into soft metal.
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:52 pm

BC847 you wouldn't happen to have any specs on the hardening depth by chance? Also how would I know if and when or what the results would be if it was in fact cut to deep? From what little I've read about replacing seats it doesn't sound like something I want to get into.

I plan on calling the shop tomorrow to see what they have to say.

On a positive note I checked the piston to valve clearance with putty on my highest piston and came to. 063 on the lowest valve which isn't a surprise with the new valve job!
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
fuel pin?
 
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby BC847 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:59 am

All the info I have on such is that from the FSM . . . . It appears one should remove no more than 0.010" from the original, integral seat. If one has to take more than that off, new service/replacement valve seats must be installed.


Image

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David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:30 pm

Well after a very lengthy conversation with the machine shop I'm starting to feel a little better based on the Cummins FSM. The Machine Shop owners is the one who did the job and took .003 off the valve seat to clean it up and the rest was taken off the valve face. That being said it still doesn't match the FSM specs for a valve recession. Based on the FSM I should be replacing the valves with any valve depth past .060. The shop explain to me that after facing the valve it was still with spec and usable. I called Southworth machine for a second opinion and said I have nothing to worry about as long as piston to valve clearance is good, too much wasn't taken out of the seat and the valve itself is still serviceable. That also explained you can take quite a bit off a valve before it's unusable. Southworth being a reputable diesel machine shop that I trusted build my motor in the first place I feel better. I guess you have to use the FSM with a grain of salt in some capacities once you start stepping into the aftermarket realm of diesel performance.
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
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Re: Engine rebuild

Postby klofdahl » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:33 pm

BC847, thanks again for the upload of FSM at least I had something to go off of when I called the machine shop and didn't look like a complete fool. He was actually surprised I was doing due diligence to his work.
74 International Travelette, 89 Cummins intercooled, bored .020 over. Hamilton 182, 60# springs, SXE 62, M&H#4 fuel pin and spacer, THD Bosh 5x13 injectors, ARP head studs, 366 spring, THD LP, Twerked VE, BHAF, 4" turbo back, nv4500, SB 500/1000 clutch, 29 spline np205, 37's, 4:10's.
klofdahl
fuel pin?
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:36 pm
Location: Southern Oregon
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