water injection

[DTanklage]

installed my snow system on the first gen

(62/65-13, ddp stg 4's, etc)

i put the recommended 375 and 625 nozzles in

didnt bother hooking up the controller yet, want to make sure it is getting enough water first (gonna use this for towing coast to coast so no meth)

just hot wired the pump to a switch

with those two nozzles i can activate it at 5# of boost and it doesnt kill the motor

doesnt even buck

tested the flow and it will fill a 500ml beret in 21 seconds!

whats the deal with these cummins motors?

that is a lot of water

put two 625 nozzles in and it wont buck at 2# of boost

boost goes up, egts go down but dont i need to get this thing to buck before i can use all the benifits of this high dollar controller?????????

don

ps - i installed a 8 gal fuel cell as the tank but i dont see how that is gonna keep up with the 60 gal fuel tank that is in the bed

seems like this thing can use as much water as fuel

aaron, where are ya?????

[MikeThomas]

Um, whats the mix of methanol you are using? If its just water you are not going to get anything but lower egts from it.

[DTanklage]

(gonna use this for towing coast to coast so no meth)

boost went from 45 to 50 with just water

gotta turn the waste gate down

again

the water cools the charge - makes it more dense - that makes hp

guys at snow say that the meth has a lot to do with the 1-2 mpg increase but whats the point of that when meth is like 7.50/gal???

least thats what VP gets for it at the track out here

i ordered another nozzle holder, and another 625 nozzle

guys at snow think i am full of it - guess they dont know the 12v cummins very well...

they said that with their 700+ rwhp chevy and two 625 nozzles (and meth, which burns) they have to be careful not to activate system before boost is high enough or it will shut the motor off

???

wtf?

i can be cruising 5th gear under/drive, 1700 rpm, 120° water temp, zero boost, flip the switch, and it still goes down the road

just fine

i dont get it

when the other nozzle shows i am going to move them

put one in the middle of ea 2 intake ports

yea, that is one in the head and two in the plate, but i think it is gonna make a big difference - dont think the water is making it to the rear cyl's

if you look at where the air horn enters the plate in relation to the ports you will see what i mean

saw a banks twin inlet system in a pic

what a great idea

here me tim???

lol

i will prolly end up making something like that for both my trucks

a cheaper way of getting better distibution w/o machining half the head off

will keep ya posted with the water results

don

[cummins king]

sorry to hyjact the thread, but DT what waste gate are you using i cant find any anywhere
thanks

[seeker1056]

well water works different on a gasser and yes it can kill the gasser motor

On the deisel the heat and compression make the water into steam before it can kill the motor.

You need a boost activated pressure switch at the very least on your water system cuz you dont need the water while cruising and low boost

that way the water only comes on when in demand, and that is how your 8 gallon water tank will last the whole of your fuel suppy.

[Begle1]

Can water kill a gasoline motor by leaning out the air/fuel mixture too much? Or just by hydrolocking it?

It's definitely possible to hydrolock a Diesel motor if you give too much water.

Diesels run higher boost pressures than gassers and therefore draw more air; I think that's the primary reason why they can take more water.

[seeker1056]

too much water in a gasser kills the flamefront

[DTanklage]

the waste gate came with the turbo from borg warner - s300 schwitzer turbo


i have the stg III snow computer box (that came with the h2o sys) but have not installed it yet. even w a diesel you can put the fire out. probably easier than with a gasser. least i would think so, we got no spark plugs. the instructions said to turn box up until the truck 'bucks' and then turn it down a little. so i didnt even install the box, just the tank pump and nozzles, hot wired it to a toggle sw and started testing it. didnt buck at 45 psi. or 35. or 25. or 15 or 5. hell, it dont buck at all. yes, i could put a hobbs sw on it, say a 10#. but why do that, i have a box to control the amount of water. the box is totally adjustable and can go off of boost, or boost AND egt. the starting point is adjustable, and how quickly it ramps to 100% is as well. but from the looks of things, with my motor laughin at two 625 ml pm nozzles in the air horn it would be kinda hard to dial any box in. so, i ordered another nozzle holder and third 625 nozzle. are ya followin me?

don

ps - this may be why some guys are seeing 80, 90 or more hp on a dyno from water meth with these engines

(cuz you can put a lot of water to them. and that means you can put a lot of meth in there too)

[MikeThomas]

Do the normal 50/50 mix of methanol to water or get some low temp windshield fluid, that will get the response you are looking for. Those kits advertise HP increase with a 50/50 methanol mix, not water.

[seeker1056]

did yuo test the system to see if water is actually flowing properly?

[DTanklage]

with the 625 sand the 375 (ml per min) it filled a 50 ml beret in 21 secs

thats 1000 ml in 42 secs, well under a min

and now it has two 625 nozzles in it

but the cummins is still laughing at it


mike, i think you are still missin the point. i understand the meth will make more power. i am trying to get the thing wet enough, with just water, so that it will quench combustion, or start to. then i know i have too much water and can back it off a little. coast to coast n back how much would i spend on meth doin it your way?

[BC847]

I run the Snow 220psig pump with it's pressure regulator adjustment run in to it's maximum pressure. That in turn feeds two .625 nozzles that look at one another at the inlet of a TwinRam feedhorn. 3/8" ID hose connects it all.




As such I can't bog it under full throttle conditions using a 50/50 mix.



FWIW I also use the CoolerMist variable controller with the start (30%) at about 25psig and full on (100%) at 35psig (my wastegate starts dumping at 38psig).

Frankly, the only hint of bogging I've seen to date is when I go to part throttle after a full throttle blast. I figure there's still some W/M in the CA ductwork that's slow in getting in the cylinders (draining off the CA plumbing walls).

I dunno. I've thought of using a third nozzle but just haven't got to it.

[DTanklage]

first of all, that is the twin intake thing i was talking about (maybe in a diff thread?) that i fregin love

that thing has to help correct the terrible dist the cummins is notorious for

no?

second, arent you worried about the water having to go uphill a little? wouldnt it be safer/better to move it 3" closer to the motor so it is in the horazontal part of your twin horn? i would think so but if you are not activating it untill 25 psi i guess its not a prob. as long as it shuts off as soon as boost decreases to 25 psi.

third, what setting brings the water in at 25 psi??? mine is 7# starting point on the low setting (100% @ 15 psi, which is what i will prolly be using the way this pig love water), 11# on med (100% @ 20 psi), or 11# starting and 25 100% on high. those are the numbers snow quoted me when the unit is in egt/boost mode. are you running boost only mode???

boost only would be fine for racing around but that is not what i am looking for. i need this thing to keep egts in check rolling at 33k# and hopefully get a mile or two per gallon more effecient

only prob i think i am gonna see with controller in egt/boost mode is that on any of the 3 settings, l,m,or h, the water starts coming in at 700°

shoot, my truck is almost always above that empty!

what turbo are you running?

do you tow?

i am running 62/65-13 (that is the 13 cm htt ex housing that i have heard runs hot but have nothing to compare to YET)

don

oh, 4th, are you sure those are not 1/4 id lines? or is the vacuum hose for your cruise control really 3/4"?

lol

pppps - your engine and eng compartment are beautiful

[BC847]

first of all, that is the twin intake thing i was talking about (maybe in a diff thread?) that i fregin love

that thing has to help correct the terrible dist the cummins is notorious for

no?
I can't help but think it does. Apparently, based on conversations about it at DTR, I'm able to flow a lot more W/M without bog than many with the relatively same engine set-up.

second, aren't you worried about the water having to go uphill a little? wouldn't it be safer/better to move it 3" closer to the motor so it is in the horizontal part of your twin horn? i would think so but if you are not activating it until 25 psi i guess its not a prob. as long as it shuts off as soon as boost decreases to 25 psi.
In a perfect world, all the mist afforded by the nozzles is 100% entrained in the rather high speed CA flow (maybe not at low/no boost). Based on what I've seen the kit mfrs use, one can fab a right-angle nozzle that mounts centered in the CA duct that in theory offers the best in fog entrainment. The thing is, all that goes to crap with the first turn (fog impingement). The super topdawgs with bottomless pockets squirt directly into the back of the intake valve . . . . most likely with interstage fogging (we're talking GPM).

But no, it doesn't run down hill.

third, what setting brings the water in at 25 psi??? mine is 7# starting point on the low setting (100% @ 15 psi, which is what i will prolly be using the way this pig love water), 11# on med (100% @ 20 psi), or 11# starting and 25 100% on high. those are the numbers snow quoted me when the unit is in egt/boost mode. are you running boost only mode???

boost only would be fine for racing around but that is not what i am looking for. i need this thing to keep egts in check rolling at 33k# and hopefully get a mile or two per gallon more efficient
My controller (CoolerMist VariCool) can be considered stage II (Boost based exclusively). It offers three knobs to toy with. One controls the start pumping set-point (0 ~ 35psig boost). The second knob controls the full-on set-point (0 ~ 35psig boost).

Because the pump sorts sucks at 10 or 20% pumping capacity, combined with the thought the nozzles are gonna drool at low pressure, the controller's minimum on pump capacity is nailed to 30%. You can move those set-point anywhere you like on the boost scale. You can even have the knobs set so the figures actually overlap. as such, the controller will act as a simple Hobbs pressure switch. Again, anywhere you like.

The third knob allows one to custom tune the ramp between the start point, and full on point be it concave, or convex in profile (It can be further shaped by linking to you laptop. As such, you can also reap all the real-time data about the W/M mess).

only prob i think i am gonna see with controller in egt/boost mode is that on any of the 3 settings, l,m,or h, the water starts coming in at 700°

shoot, my truck is almost always above that empty!

what turbo are you running?
PDR HX35 Hybrid with a 14 WG'ed housing

do you tow?
Nope. Grocery-getter / Weekend warrior

i am running 62/65-13 (that is the 13 cm htt ex housing that i have heard runs hot but have nothing to compare to YET)

don

[DTanklage]

thanks for all the info

that was the controller i originally ordered

joe talked me into this stg III one

one of the reasons it is not hooked up yet (or the only other reason besides i cant get it to buck yet) is that the way they want you to put the boost into the box is lame

straight out

the box has a plastic (kinda soft plastic) tube going into it

it isnt 1/8" tube like normal oil pressure boost gage stuff, it is like .175" o.d.

is yours like that???

they (snow) says i am to install a hose barb in the air horn, slide a supplied pc of rubber vac/boost line over it, and then get this - slide the plastic line into the rubber one and wa la

???

how is yours plumbed???

don