VE or P Pump

[mog1300]

This is my first post here and I got an question regarding injection pumps.

So, I want around 450-500hp out of my first gen Cummins and I am undicided if I should use an VE pump with an 14mm pump head or an P pump ! Is the VE up the task ? Or should I switch to the P pump (185hp version).

I also got an 5.9L 12V build in 99 with an VE pump (european truck engine) and this engine uses the 24V block (53 casting) and the head like they used on the 98 12V with the inline pump. Are the internal parts of the newer engine better (pistons etc) and is the head better ??

Daniel

[burnt_servo]

poke around here , guys are getting that hp range with a 12mm ve pump on straight diesel .

[peobryant]

Depends on what you want to do with the truck. If it is a daily driver, I'd say ditch the VE and go with the P7100. If it's a competition only truck, the VE will make over 500rwhp, but it will be harder than a P-Pump.

400rwhp is obtainable with a 12mm H/R which will be reliable. When you go to the 14mm H/R is when reliability is thrown out the window. Under 450rwhp should be fine with the 12mm H/R, but again, it will be more work than the P7100.

[mog1300]

The engine is in an 10000 pound (empty weight) UNIMOG and the truck is used for racing like dakar and must run 2500mls in 4 days reliable. If the pump lasts 20000-30000mls reliable, I will be more as happy, because i dont think that the engine will last any longer than that.
right now i have around 350hp and the engine is very reliable, but thats not enugh power!
I am very undicided which pump to use. the VE is small and compact and already in the truck. The P7100 makes it expensive (maybe I am wrong) and maybe better.

[Begle1]

The P-pump is a clearly more reliable pump capable of moving more fuel.

However, at 400 HP and only 2500 miles, the VE shouldn't have any problems and money would better be spent elsewhere. At 500 HP you're going to have a lot of things done to the VE engine, and at that point you might be seeing a good dollar-for-dollar return by P-pumping.

[mog1300]

The P-pump is a clearly more reliable pump capable of moving more fuel.

However, at 400 HP and only 2500 miles, the VE shouldn't have any problems and money would better be spent elsewhere. At 500 HP you're going to have a lot of things done to the VE engine, and at that point you might be seeing a good dollar-for-dollar return by P-pumping.

So, how many miles will the 14mm head survive ?? Is 20000 hard miles an problem ?
How many GPM and what fuel pressure does the VE with the 14mm require?
I always put special diesel fuel lube in my diesel fuel.


On VWs and other vehicles (incl medium duty trucks) the VE is very reliable here in Europe. Here we call the P7100 the old pump and the VE the new pump. They went away fom the P pump in the end of the 80s beginning of the 90s (when they switched to the P pump in the US). Here in Europe Cummins engines are always with equiped with the VE Pump (non electronic engines). I just bought an 12V with the VE that was build in mid 99 (53 casting )

Daniel

[fergavs]

My 14mm VE pump has been superf reliable. I have been daily driving the truck all summer. I don't drive nice either and my pump loves it. This is now my 2nd full season the the 14mm and not a single problem.(jinx!!!) You'll get better milage and driveability with the VE but the P Pump has more potential for huge power. 500hp on a VE I think is no big deal. More then 600hp thou is very tough.

[dpuckett]

KTA has several years on his 14mm VE, and is getting 600+ to the wheels, so I think with sane usage and adequate fuel supply, it'd last.

I had a farrier school classmate from Finland who had a 5.9 in a Ford lorry, and said it was nearly bullet proof. Told him it was real similar to the one in my Dodge, and he was properly impressed.

Dan

[MudSlinger79]

Okay heres the thing guy i love my ve and have added all the items in my sig to it not sure exactly what kind of power its making but feels strong. I have a p-pump at my shop that keeps starring at me. Im guessing im around 425 hp maybe a little more i guess. Im thinking about putting the p-pump with a 0 plate, 4000 rev kit, and some New Era 435s, but im worried its gonna be to much power and tear the rest of the truck. I have already broke two 5 ton shafts with the current setup. As for a tranny im running a allison 545 which im not sure how much it can take either. And also going up to 74" tires so im thinking i should leave the motor alone. What i do with my truck is not so much about hp as long as u keep the tires turning ur good.
Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

[93_Fummins]

What i do with my truck is not so much about hp as long as u keep the tires turning ur good.

Darn, now I'm contridicted on my Horsepower vs. Torque speech...

Perhaps you wouldn't break as much stuff if you had the, dare I say, horsepower to keep things spinning fast enough to avoid friction. I know from my experience in the mud and trails that there are two ways to make it through; slow and steady if you have the traction, or hammer down and try to build momentum before you get sucked in. A guy out where I live has a twin turbo 12 valve p-pump motor in a giagantic Chevy with 2.5 tons and 66" tractor tread. If he tries to lug things, he breaks. However, if he lights it up and goes balls out through the pit at peak rpm's (peak horsepower) he doesn't break anything...until he hits a tree like he did last time (I guess the HUGE black cloud of smoke pouring from the hood stack blocked his vision).

Same goes for my dad's big '78 Ford. He's got a built 400M, 4 speed and Dana 60's with 44" tractor tires. The only time he breaks is when traction meets up with torque.

Anyway, I'm going to shut my mouth now because I can see that if I try to keep up with all the arguments that I'll just go cross-eyed and tongue tied. Man,...I wish work would pick up...

[MudSlinger79]

There is now way anyone can throw a 74" tall tire with 4" cleats around.
I dont race this truck its a bog truck we spend all day hitting huge holes and pulling people out. It has nothing to do with my driving style why i break. Oh and by the way my foot stays on the floor 90% of the day.

[93_Fummins]

It has nothing to do with my driving style why i break...

I just found the quote of the day!

I know this is a little off topic, but have you looked into planetary outters??? Like the old hybrid Clark/Rockwell 5 ton planetary axles that Bigfoot and the like used to use back in the day. It would take a bit of torque off the shafts themselves and let you keep the engine in it's happy place more often without all the pre-axle gear reduction. Just a thought...

[DZL_Damon]

They are still running the Dakar? A few of my Senegalese friends from Dakar told me they didn't run it this year?

The P pump would be your choice for higher power. But like said, if only 400hp or so is desired, the VE pump is fine. I believe the VE fuels harder at lower RPM's which is a bonus over the P pump, and the amount of torque vs the amount of horsepower is greater if the timing is not too far advanced. Ive heard fuel consumption is better in an equally powered VE pump vs. the p pump as well. Good luck on your build!

[MudSlinger79]

Now thats a little more help full. My max power im looking for is around 500 witch i think wouldnt be to hard to get out of the ve with a few more up grades.