Injection pump testing

[dazedandconfused]

I use photobucket and as long as you don't move the pics in photobucket theink will stay good.

[Richie O]

I use photobucket and as long as you don't move the pics in photobucket theink will stay good.

Yup, download them and don't mess with them.

[KTA]

I don't know if this will work, but here is the test stand.

[KTA]

SO I have been doing some 14mm testing and have discovered several issues. With the particular fuel screw in this pump and control lever assembly the fuel screw is capable of moving the control collar its maximum distance. A longer fuel screw in this particular pump would only result in bending the lever over like lots of people do putting a gov spring in wrong. From the two 205 pumps I have sitting here they are both that way so it looks like to me anybody that is welding up the tip on their screw to turn it in further is probably doing internal damage. Anyways this pumnp is setup in a normal single feed setup with a 386 spring and linkage travel maximized. The fuel cone is ground and set at max fuel position. The 1st thing I noticed was that the pump needed in excess of 30psi at anything over 1500rpm to keep fueling up, and even then it is falling off bad. At high rpms I am running 80+psi inlet pressure and still cant keep fuel delivery and case pressure up. This is why I think alot of 14mm VE's die. You HAVE TO run a ton of fuel pressure or it essentialy keeps running dry and it scores the plunger. I also tried a 354 spring but even at 4000rpm I didn't gain anything with it. I don't yet know if this is because the pump just cant flow at those speeds yet or if it is governor related.
Flowed with my 6x.018 injectors
RPM Flow Power
1500 460cc 460rwhp
2000 420cc 525rwhp
3000 360cc 677rwhp
3500 320cc 702rwhp
3600 310cc 699rwhp
3800 290cc 690rwhp
4000 250cc 626rwhp

So it looks like 700 on fuel is possible with enough tweaking but all the stars would have to be in alignment for sure!!!

[The_Head]

Can I send you the "hot rod" VE pump I have from Piers Diesel to see what it puts out?

[KTA]

Sure. For a nominal fee to cover time and expenses for testing I would be glad to. If you want to know what it accurately flows in your application you will need to send the injectors you intend to use with that pump as well.

[dazedandconfused]

Have you tried any with a 4mm camplate?

[KTA]

Have you tried any with a 4mm camplate?

I have never had any 4mm camplates made. Besides that would just make the current problem with the 14mm just that much worse.

[dazedandconfused]

that's what I was thinking. It may work if you could keep pump fueled so it's not starving at higher rpms.

[oldestof11]

So, its not RPM or the fuel return restrictions causing the seizures but not enough flow?

What if we bored the whole inlet to something larger? Or added a 2nd one to the side under manual hot down lever??

[KTA]

I think 2 things cause the seizures. #1 to small of an injector to cope with the fuel flow so injection pressures get to high and you distort the barrel and plunger from hydraulic pressure. Since the barrel is thinner in a 14mm since it is a bored out 12mm it more easily distorts. #2 is lack of fuel. If you look at the fuel inlet size in the VE plunger you will see it is very small. By design this hole can not be enlarged and it has to be the same size for a 12mm and a 14mm. This is going to require a special fuel system and some serious reengineering to solve.

[PToombs]

Would it benefit to run a larger cam plate with the 12mm plunger and head? I've been wondering about this for a month or so and keep forgetting to ask.

[burnt_servo]

is it possible to get / build a 13mm head , then maybe goto a camplate with a higher lift ?

[GLHS]

SO I have been doing some 14mm testing and have discovered several issues. With the particular fuel screw in this pump and control lever assembly the fuel screw is capable of moving the control collar its maximum distance. A longer fuel screw in this particular pump would only result in bending the lever over like lots of people do putting a gov spring in wrong. From the two 205 pumps I have sitting here they are both that way so it looks like to me anybody that is welding up the tip on their screw to turn it in further is probably doing internal damage. Anyways this pumnp is setup in a normal single feed setup with a 386 spring and linkage travel maximized. The fuel cone is ground and set at max fuel position. The 1st thing I noticed was that the pump needed in excess of 30psi at anything over 1500rpm to keep fueling up, and even then it is falling off bad. At high rpms I am running 80+psi inlet pressure and still cant keep fuel delivery and case pressure up. This is why I think alot of 14mm VE's die. You HAVE TO run a ton of fuel pressure or it essentialy keeps running dry and it scores the plunger. I also tried a 354 spring but even at 4000rpm I didn't gain anything with it. I don't yet know if this is because the pump just cant flow at those speeds yet or if it is governor related.
Flowed with my 6x.018 injectors
RPM Flow Power
1500 460cc 460rwhp
2000 420cc 525rwhp
3000 360cc 677rwhp
3500 320cc 702rwhp
3600 310cc 699rwhp
3800 290cc 690rwhp
4000 250cc 626rwhp

So it looks like 700 on fuel is possible with enough tweaking but all the stars would have to be in alignment for sure!!!

OK Brian, I'm lost.
Am I the only one here who got lost in the cc-hp conversion?

Reading the cc's at say 1500 rpm, if we could burn all that, wouldn't that be 920 hp and the rwhp =736?
Again, at 4000 rpm and 250 cc = 500 hp and rwhp of 400 hp.

What did I figure wrong?

[KTA]

What you figured wrong is that the 2hp per cc guide is merely a rough estimate for predicting peak power. The actual formula is more complex. In reality by knowing the CC's you can calculate the BMEP or Brake mean effective pressure, this in turn yields a torque value. So for a constant fuel rate across various RPMS you yield the same torque, but with more rpms the same torque means MORE HP! I think if you look at the numbers I posted for the 12mm and compare it to one of your dyno sheets doesn't it match pretty close? I know it matches mine pretty good from 1800rpm on out.