Injection pump testing

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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby Halfagagga » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:48 pm

I'll let him answer. I dont know enough yet. ;)
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:58 pm

The industry standard for measuring fuel delivery is typicaly cc/1000strokes. This value is also the same as cubicmm/stroke. In other wordsif a pump is stated to put out 300cc/1000strokes then it also puts out 300 cubic mm/injection event. When I get a chance to resume testing I will look into the case pressure questions.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby dragrdan » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:22 pm

KTA wrote:I think 2 things cause the seizures. #1 to small of an injector to cope with the fuel flow so injection pressures get to high and you distort the barrel and plunger from hydraulic pressure. Since the barrel is thinner in a 14mm since it is a bored out 12mm it more easily distorts. #2 is lack of fuel. If you look at the fuel inlet size in the VE plunger you will see it is very small. By design this hole can not be enlarged and it has to be the same size for a 12mm and a 14mm. This is going to require a special fuel system and some serious reengineering to solve.


After looking at the 2 14mm's I siezed more closely, I think #1 is it,at least in my case. Although it looks more like its bending the plunger where it the 2 (I am guessing lubrication?) grooves are. Then the bent plunger tries to enter the barrel, galls, and siezes. Both plungers were broken at the grooves, with very slight galling at the internal side of the barrel. I don't see the barrel distorting. True, it is thinner, but it is still quite thick hardened steel pressed into very thick forged steel. You've got the camplate pushing, hydraulic pressure resisting, the plunger unsupported at its weakest point.
93 W250 5spd, Comp 275, HE351CW, 5X18, IP turned up, 3200 spring, BHAF.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby dragrdan » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:28 pm

BTW, I noticed a port running from the internal part of the head out to about the threads for the plug. Anyone know it's purpose?
93 W250 5spd, Comp 275, HE351CW, 5X18, IP turned up, 3200 spring, BHAF.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:39 pm

There are a lot of ports in there. Do you have a picture? I can probably tell you what it is.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby dragrdan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:09 pm

Image


Image

Both ends of the same passage. I understand the purpose of the other ports and passages, but this one I dont.
93 W250 5spd, Comp 275, HE351CW, 5X18, IP turned up, 3200 spring, BHAF.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:52 am

I believe that is a pressure relief. Isn't the thread side of that hole normaly covered by the barrel insert for the plunger? I think that it is. I suspect that it is there so that if fuel happens to leak past the fit of the insert to the barrel it will not generate a hydraulic pressure behind the barrel that could distort and damage it.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby dragrdan » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:30 pm

It is behind it, but not blocked by it. I think you are right and its for any pressure that gets out between the barrel, and the plug that threads in there.
93 W250 5spd, Comp 275, HE351CW, 5X18, IP turned up, 3200 spring, BHAF.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:44 pm

I did some more pump testing. I got the 3200rpm spring put in the 205 pump I tested previously and adjusted it for max fuel before runaway and got the following results. I also ran a Piers pump with no adjustments to it, just the way they sold it as a comparison. Here are the results with everything being equal as possible and were flowed using a set of DDP4 injectors which are about like a 5 hole POD for size.
Tweaked 205 pump using the usual stuff vs Piers Pump
1000rpm 280cc 256cc
1250rpm 290cc 256cc
1500rpm 280cc 250cc
1750rpm 280cc 250cc
2000rpm 270cc 240cc
2250rpm 270cc 240cc
2500rpm 260cc 235cc
2750rpm 250cc 230cc
3000rpm 240cc 220cc
3250rpm 230cc 150cc
3500rpm 200cc 65cc
3750rpm 150cc 10cc
4000rpm 70cc 0cc

So according to my calculator the KTA tweaked pump could make 468rwhp and 955ft-lb of torque. The Piers pump would be 413hp and 832ft-lb of torque.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby AHineman » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:09 pm

KTA, have you ever tested the same VE with a set of 6x16s vs. a set of 6x18s with the same lift, etc. etc.? I was just wondering how many cc's difference there would be with all things equal except that.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby oldestof11 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:11 pm

So, does a 3200 RPM spring add more low RPM fueling compared to a stock spring?

if you give me time, I will send a VW gov assembly to someone for a test to see if that helps at all...
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:12 pm

I don't have any 6x.016 injectors that would meet that criteria so no I have never tested that.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby KTA » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:17 pm

It looks like to me the spring just changes the top end and doesent do anything for the bottom since with the 6x.018's and a stock spring it still outflowed the same pump on the bottom with a gov spring and the DDP's.
Fleet of Junk: 1989 D350 627rwhp 1300 tq B-1/Hx60 twins, KTA pump/injectors, ported head, BIG fuel supply. 13.75@ 109.5mph 1/4: 1992 W350 Cab-chasis, 1993 W350 ext cab cust.370 inj Hx40/16cm 290rwhp hydroboost brakes,1984 D350 crew-cab another project.
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby AHineman » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:18 pm

KTA wrote:I don't have any 6x.016 injectors that would meet that criteria so no I have never tested that.


If you weren't 3 or 4 hours away I'd drop mine off, but I hate to ship them...that, and I hope to have a new pump soon and I need them in the truck. :lol:
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Re: Injection pump testing

Postby Tacoclaw » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:37 pm

You can borrow my non-I/C stockers, Hineman. You shouldn't really notice a difference. 8)
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