There's a supercharger kit for our trucks?

[Begle1]

Cool.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums ... p?t=132868


If I wasn't spending months at a time on the road, saving up to buy a house and trying to get my goofy VGT set-up controllable somehow, I'd totally be all over that.

[oldestof11]

That kit is Crazy Carl's Turbos. That same guy is selling it here too.

[The_Head]

That's pretty cool. Any dyno charts floating around for a setup like that? Puts out 27 psi, sounds kind of weak, but I don't know.

[dazedandconfused]

It's the instant boost and no lag that makes these a cool alternative especially for manuals. They are feeding a larger turbo and setting up a bypass as well to pull air from the filter bypassing the super after it hits 25 psi. Basically the super is always feeding 25 psi and a valve opens allowing turbo to pull additional air from the filter.

[The_Head]

Oh so you have a turbo as well? I assume you use a primary sized turbo?

[dazedandconfused]

I plan to use a ht3b if i go this route.

[TheTowingCowboy]

It's the instant boost and no lag that makes these a cool alternative especially for manuals. They are feeding a larger turbo and setting up a bypass as well to pull air from the filter bypassing the super after it hits 25 psi. Basically the super is always feeding 25 psi and a valve opens allowing turbo to pull additional air from the filter.

I dont see how there is a bypass in it, cause that would allow the boost from the Supercharger to just vanish and just have the boost from the turbo. Now don't most compound turbo setups make 30 psi after the atmosphere and then add 30 more (60 total) at the end of the small turbo? If so then as they have done for a while is make a compound setup with it where the supercharger is your atmosphere charger.

[dazedandconfused]

The supercharger will choke out the turbo not allowit to pull the air it needs. The super will always make boist and as it hits 25 the small bypass opens sllowing the turbo to pull more air from there. Its a closed system still and you wont loose the boost from the super.

[TheTowingCowboy]

The supercharger will choke out the turbo not allowit to pull the air it needs. The super will always make boist and as it hits 25 the small bypass opens sllowing the turbo to pull more air from there. Its a closed system still and you wont loose the boost from the super.

Okay then lets use our brains boys and girls! If the super is choking out the turbo is the super is used as your atmosphere, why not switch them around having a turbo as your atmosphere and the super as your compressing small one?

http://blogs.dieselpowermag.com/6434264 ... rcharging/

Ta-da! And detroit did the same thing, here's a video of a 8V92

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGoM1bBN ... r_embedded

Here's a picture!



Though the blower was used for scavenging purposes and the turbo was the only real 'charger' the engines did make big power even by todays standards.

Plus with advances in technology and being able to help with losing some of the parasitic loss and Turbo to super charger compound system could work pretty well. Or do a actual twin (3 cylinders running one turbo) then those twins feeding the super. To me it seems most logical way so you have some boost at idle and boost to carry you up to when the turbo would kick in.

or if you bought one of those 'twin ram' intake plates they sell on ebay

AKA this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-Diesel- ... 11&vxp=mtr

and have a turbo putting boost to one intake and the supercharger to the other you would be in good shape. Hell if you had the room have a supercharger feed one intake then a set of compounds feed the other and if you had enough fuel you could really go to to town.

[dazedandconfused]

Superchargers can't have more then thier designed limit blown threw them. They cant handle the preasure and start flexing the fins then pop. Basically you are useing the super to spool a large charger then letting tge turbo do most of the work.

[ellis93]

The root style chargers are different on Detroits. The old motor I'm familiar with is the 8v71, it had to have the charger to force feed air to the lower part of the cylinder and push the exhaust out at the same time, not just to scaveng air. Far as I've heard they've had turbos on them as well.

[TheTowingCowboy]

I dont see how blow threw has anything to do with it. My understanding was so that the you had a turbo making pressurized air then the second one pressurized it more so you have more PSI. THe idea of a atmosphere turbo being double the size is so that the amount of air that is being pressurized is enough to not starve the small turbo. Its kind of a two stage process best way I can think of explaining it is you have a small trash compactor and a big trash compactor. You cant fit your initial trash in the small compactor but you can fit it in the large one, but the large one doesnt compact it enough. So what you do is compact it with the large compactor, then you put it in the small one and compact it more. So in the end all that trash that filled your mother in laws house now fits in the trunk of a prius.

EDIT: Ellis I know that on the Detroits the blower was used to push out the old exhaust gasses and make sure that air went in one way, but it still theoretically made some form of boost may just have been a few PSI but it still made it.

[oldestof11]

If you had a super in front of you, you would understand.

The object of a compound setup is to help with low end spooling because the atmosphere charger is too large to spool effectively by itself. If you tried even towing with a large turbo, it would surge like none other. The small one actually pulls through the big one for a bit.

Also, a small turbo doesn't "add" 30 more psi, rather it multiplies the boost from the large turbo. If you look at a turbo's map, it has a "pressure ratio" on one side of the graph. That ratio is the compounding effect of the incoming air. So 30psi from the atmosphere is what the secondary sees. The turbo doesn't care what is feeding it, it just ramps up the pressure. Then to effectively ramp up pressure, it pressurizes it even more by a ratio. So at 2:1 pressure ratio puts the secondary right in the middle of its map when spooled up, your incoming 30psi is pressurized to 60psi. If the pressure ratio was 1.5:1, then it would be 45psi. There are a couple more variables but for the sake of THIS argument, that is all that is needed.

Now, the super/turbo setup. With the super feeding the large turbo, it blows through that turbo making the big one not work. Now when the big one starts singing, and the super has reached its upper limits, the super has a bypass built into it that is like a throttle plate. The throttle plate opens and lets the big turbo pull from the super and through this throttle plate. You now have a very large single turbo but with the "spool" of a much smaller turbo.

PSI is not what you really need, it is CFM.

[TheTowingCowboy]

If you had a super in front of you, you would understand.

The object of a compound setup is to help with low end spooling because the atmosphere charger is too large to spool effectively by itself. If you tried even towing with a large turbo, it would surge like none other. The small one actually pulls through the big one for a bit.

Also, a small turbo doesn't "add" 30 more psi, rather it multiplies the boost from the large turbo. If you look at a turbo's map, it has a "pressure ratio" on one side of the graph. That ratio is the compounding effect of the incoming air. So 30psi from the atmosphere is what the secondary sees. The turbo doesn't care what is feeding it, it just ramps up the pressure. Then to effectively ramp up pressure, it pressurizes it even more by a ratio. So at 2:1 pressure ratio puts the secondary right in the middle of its map when spooled up, your incoming 30psi is pressurized to 60psi. If the pressure ratio was 1.5:1, then it would be 45psi. There are a couple more variables but for the sake of THIS argument, that is all that is needed.

Now, the super/turbo setup. With the super feeding the large turbo, it blows through that turbo making the big one not work. Now when the big one starts singing, and the super has reached its upper limits, the super has a bypass built into it that is like a throttle plate. The throttle plate opens and lets the big turbo pull from the super and through this throttle plate. You now have a very large single turbo but with the "spool" of a much smaller turbo.

PSI is not what you really need, it is CFM.

Well my point is that if you feed something 1 gallon of fuel an hour theh ramp upt he pressure to deliver 2 gallons of fuel per hour but dont have enough fuel its useless. Hence why a atmosphere turbo is bigger so that it can make sure the small has enough air.

And the bypass on the super is the pop valve, and that would be setup so that what air escapes threw it would be sent to the turbo still so that its not a restriction. Thank you for making that more understanding.

But still compounding a bigger turbo to a super to the engine seems like it would be the easiest way to go.

Also I never said anything about adding my whole analogy of my post was about compressing then more compressing I never said it added I said it compressed it more.

[Tacoclaw]

I think Jesse's trying to say that the point of compounds is to have the spool of a smaller charger with the inlet size of a larger charger. If all the big charger is sucking through is the bypass valve on the super once it's spooled who's to say it's not actually becoming a restriction? It's much easier to put pressure through an orifice than it is to try to suck through one. (easy, Pete). Hence the whole purpose of compounds.

I don't see it being a concern for 99% of trucks that would run this kit, but he's thinking correctly.