Heading to the dyno Saturday

Sled-pulling, Drag results, Dyno results

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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:15 pm

With that big of an injector and timing "only to the head" I'd guess 350ish
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby cummins12club » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:54 am

jumping the tooth gunna get me their?
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby skilletky » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:21 am

possibly. big injectors need alot of timing. when i jumped a tooth and kept it pretty close to the head, it made a pretty good difference.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby oldestof11 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:05 pm

I would almost jump 2 teeth
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:16 pm

This may sound odd.... but I'll try and explain this correctly.

When one goes with a big injector, it requires more timing to even make the same amount of power as it did with less fuel.

Meaning (all made up numbers for sake of arguemnt) Let's say I have a given set up and have a 50lpm injector and the engine is putting down 350hp. Now if one goes to a really big injector...let's say 100lpm, they may make the same amount of powerand I've actually seen where people have lost power without changing a thing. Now if you add timing....(and air) you'll make lots more power.

What happens is you are putting out the fire with too much fuel. Also the bigger the injectors, the more "raw" the fuel is when it enters the cylinder... essentially there is less surface area of fuel even though there is a greater volume of fuel in the cylinder.... so this takes both more timing and more air per volume of fuel in order to burn it in a given time.


So when one has an injector as big as a 5x18.... that size injector requires loads of timing in order to burn effeciently. You have everything else matched up (it seems), but with a set up like this you could literally range 100hp or more just by adjusting your timing.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby cmann250 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:48 pm

If I may... (correct me if I'm wrong)

You need to advance timing with big injectors so they have enough time to deliver their load within the correct degree range of piston motion.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby oldestof11 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:00 pm

Take 1 gallon of diesel and toss it into the middle of a pool. Light it from the edge of the circle of oily sheen.

Take 5 gallons of diesel and do the same.

Notice which one reaches the center quicker.
Hypothetically speaking. :D
With more timing, you allow more time ( :mrgreen: ) for the diesel to reach its optimum for using up the fuel with the air molecules. If you expect more fuel to burn just as quick as a little bit, you won't get it.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:14 pm

More fuel takes longer to burn....

BUT, it is due to the surface area of the fuel. Think about this... a common rail with a much more extreme injection pump pressure needs lesstiming and air to burn the same aount of fuel than a ve pump... it is because it mists the fuel more (the fuel is less raw).

This is why a ve pump needs more timing than any other cummins with the exact same air and fuel entering the cylinder.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby cummins12club » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:06 pm

I get what ur saying what about a p pump on the timing ordeal does it need tons of timing like the ve?
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby BC847 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:08 pm

cmann250 wrote:You need to advance timing with big injectors so they have enough time to deliver their load within the correct degree range of piston motion.


This.

I've found there's no substitute for using dyno-time to dial it in. Screw going to a dyno just to see what it'll do that day. The last couple of times I've had my mess on a dyno, I left with no less than 50hp (IIRC) more to the ground just by screwing around with the timing. :)
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:24 pm

Increasing the injector size doesn't lenghten the time that it injects fuel though. Increasing the flow of the pump does.

Actually increasing injector size shortens the duration of the injection event with a given amount of fuel.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby cmann250 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 pm

You're talking nozzles RC, I think. I'm talking charge. Yes, a 5x18 nozzle on a 190 will empty faster than an identical nozzle on a 435. The 435 would need more time to empty because of an increased load of fuel.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby ellis93 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:34 pm

I be confused :scratch:
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby AHineman » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:51 pm

Increasing pintle lift increases dwell time.
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Re: Heading to the dyno Saturday

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:21 pm

It only matters how quickly the h/r loses it's pressure.....correct? or not? I feel like now I may be missing something.

Meaning if you make a large restriction (small injector)...the h/r pushes it's pressure through it for a longer time. Where if you open it up like a garden hose, the h/r affectively moves all of the fuel it has "gathered" almost instantly....shortening the injection event.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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