P-pump chasin

[seeker1056]

Well i have decided to get serious about pulling this year given how well my truck worked last year.

Our Prostock boys are no where near the caliber of the serious stuff stateside, and I plan to take a really good run at them this year - I want that 4' trophy at the home run

Why? - in a bush run one of thier best ran against us street boys to make a demo run - he made a full pull with his dedicated puller against my 285' run in a street truck - no posies or tires etc. [I know how to set up a pull truck ;o) ]

So parts i been accumulating, or have coming as we speak - spare head to port to within an inch of its life, soon to be custom intake, 14mm head, cam plate, lockers front n rear, decent tires

I am converting to a piston liftpump backed by a Holley Black pump and a Barry Grant bypass regulator.

I am lookin at a Super B s300 or a gt40 or a hx40 as my new small turbo - anyone got suggestions or a good turbo for sale?

I am in need of a set of BIG injectors and again wish to know if anyone has a spare set for sale. I have POD and a stock set of VE injectors to get rid of once i have the new injectors


Has anyone investigated different ratio rocker arms? What is the current ratio on a stock Ve motor? Are the newer motors the same ratio? One can make quite a flow difference with slightly more rocker ratio

Cams - I doubt at this level one might be necessary to get the job done but I am open to any suggestions.

Timing - there is a website dealing with the 250hp motors and the proprieter is well known in that circle for his 700hp mods.
He advocates using less timing not more, in a high boost motor so it doesnt grenade.
Thoughts? Is the B motor we use that much different under boost?

I dont need more than my current 3400 rpm - my full manual auto trans works very well shifting 1,2,3,2 every run

What else can be suggested to get this project going well?

[KTA]

I am converting to a piston liftpump backed by a Holley Black pump and a Barry Grant bypass regulator.

Personally I don't think that is enough fuel supply unless you are going to run the mechanical and the holley in parallel.
I am lookin at a Super B s300 or a gt40 or a hx40 as my new small turbo - anyone got suggestions or a good turbo for sale?

Why not get an HT60 and put it with a HX35 or HX40 with a 21cm hsg. The hx35/Ht60 combo is capable of 550rwhp and 1200+tq pretty easy and thats probably going to be your cheapest twins setup to build.


Has anyone investigated different ratio rocker arms? What is the current ratio on a stock Ve motor? Are the newer motors the same ratio? One can make quite a flow difference with slightly more rocker ratio.

Stock is 1.66 ratio, as are all 12valve.
Cams - I doubt at this level one might be necessary to get the job done but I am open to any suggestions.
A good cam like my torque monster series offers more bang for your buck than custom longer rocker ratio rockers will. But FWIW Old yellow is 600+ on a stock cam............for now.

Timing - there is a website dealing with the 250hp motors and the proprieter is well known in that circle for his 700hp mods.
He advocates using less timing not more, in a high boost motor so it doesnt grenade.
Thoughts? Is the B motor we use that much different under boost?
This isn't a gas motor so it wont detonate from high boost and timing, you have to run lots of timing to make the good power. If it sounds like a 24Valve at idle its about right.

[seeker1056]

Hi Brian
The 250hp is cummins big truck diesel.
I already have twins, and the hx55 is nowhere at its peak yet - i just need a decent small turbo as i think my used hx35 is junk

Fuel supply? in gph what is enough? The holley Black is good for 140 gph by itself......? and wil ldo so through 3/8" lines

I am not arguing to be sure but I dont want to go out n spend money til i know exactly what on and why, with good specs to back it up.

So in order t ofeed a 14mm with the upgraded cam plate what is enough pressure and volume - so far nobody has actually answered that question in technical terms - just guesstimations.

What is your cam and how much? Something you make or resell?

thanx for all of your answers they are very informative.

[seeker1056]

http://www.dieselinjection.net/frames.html

See item number (5)

These are very informative articles for any diesel engine especially the "restriction" ones

oops sorry - you have to click on Bruces power stuff, and click on "the beginning" article then scroll down to five

[seeker1056]

thoughts on fuel supply

Has anyone who has put a modified VE pump on a test stand, calculated or measured the fuel flow in one minute, into a graduated beaker so we can actually know what fuel requirements by pressure and volume to keep the 14mm alive

Mr Ford - u been playin a lot on the stand - you got real time real world fuel figures to share?

thanx
Ken

[Fnschlaud4620]

I am going with some type of electric, A1000, weldon or something. Dont know yet.

While talking to a cam company about getting some lifters reground they told me they has seen up to 50hp be freed up on a dyno by not having a mechanical fuel pump.

They told me the Big Mechanical fuel pumps put alot of load on the cam too, and contributes to early 1st and 2nd gen cams snapping.

Take it for what it is worth, but I feel the person was a good source.

Fnschlaud4620

[KTA]

Assume its a 500cc/100stroke pump and running 3600 rpm. Fuel flow at a MINIMUM is
500x3600x3=540000mm^3/min= 1.43 gallon/min=86gallon/hour
Therfore adding in some extra flow to compensate for losses, injector and injection pump return you can figure you need at least a pump capable of 100gallon/hour. According to the charts on Holley's page a Black pump can not flow 100gph at anything over about 16psi, which isn't very much pressure to be trying to sustain power at good rpm with a high flow VE. In the application on your truck and from line losses and fittings you could probably expect the black can not even flow 100gph @ 10psi.
Yes I offer a reground cam that several people are running and have had good results with. It does require the use of new lifters though is its main drawback. I personally know Bruce, and they are in the business of building high HP motors to run lots of miles with good reliability and at low rpm's. You are welcome to try the retarded timing if you like, just don't expect big power numbers. Also as I recall your drive pressures were way out of whack with your twin setup...........................if you read Bruces article you should know high drive pressure kills performance.

[MunK]

ersonally I don't think that is enough fuel supply unless you are going to run the mechanical and the Holley in parallel.

I am with KTA on this one. My gasser 500in engine can suck that black pump down to the 3psi range in a full throttle blast quite effectively. That is through 3/8 lines and a modified (larger) than stock pickup in tank. I can't see that pump supporting 500Hp alone. I swapped it for a mechanical pump when it died the second time in one year.

NoRM

[ford69557ci]

well my research isnt relly anygood at this moment because i have gotten a large flow number but thats with crammin 65-68 psi into the inlet and i have not been able to find a seal that will hold this yet.. holley elec pumps are junk if you want my opinion i have burnt several of them up on gassers along with a holley blue when i first started on my truck. The a1000 seems to be the hot setup and if ya wanna spend a little more then aeromotive offers a few higher line pumps also.

[seeker1056]

thanx all - this is the stuff we all need to hear
Specially Brian - those fuel numbers
Ok so aeromotive or similar for a pump
Yes Brian my drive pressures were outa wack - i think due to a wore out 35, and possibly my connecting manifold which is to be changed out for a round pipe type similar to your own.
So how much pressure can a VE pump withstand without blowin the seal, or do we "need" to pin the seal so we can run more pressure? How much inlet fuel pressure do we need if the volume is there?
I dont mind spendin money but hate to waste it as i have said several times.
Brian - how much is a cam, and lifter set? What kind of hp increase will I expect from the change?
I ran a weldon pump for years and it is an imprssive pump - never tried an aeromotive - yet - ya'll have me convinced to try tho

I think this thread is going places - more imput please

It sure would be nice to kick sum p-p ass

[ford69557ci]

i have a snap ring that retains the seal it just leaks around the shaft somewhere on here cumminsking has pic of the same setup i have. i know at 75 psi plus the vane pump commits suicide lol did that a few times. i think unless your just tryin to spit out 800hp that 30-40 psi on the inlet will be just fine. i think kta has a boost referenced system so im gonna try that next and try to keep a seal in.

[KTA]

Spend your money on some good turbos they will make more power than the cam. You can only make as much power as your atmosphere turbo can support. Ditch the 55 and get a bigger and better turbo. Asking when the seal blows is like asking when a head gasket blows, who knows?? I would recommend putting some kind of retainer on the seal so you don't have to worry about it. I run 15psi then boost refrenced to a max pressure of about 60psi at full load. Is that the magic number or is that necessary I don't know, but it suites me.

[seeker1056]

well - i was the one suggested the retainer clip idea for the seal a few posts ago to Mr Ford, so my new pump will have one for sure.

Boost referenced pressure - Brian just told me that like my old gasser turbo days, to keep the original 20 or so psi fuel pressure while under boost may require that 60+ psi boost reference

If memory serves when i first came on this site i asked this boost reference question and was told "not necessary its a diesel"

How times have changed

So what is the minimum supply pressure at all times for the 14mm head setup to live under load and down the street?

[ford69557ci]

i would say at just light pedal cruising that 15-20 should do just fine

[KTA]

I have had a seal retainer since 2001 and a boost refrenced regulator with an Aeromotive pump since 2003, so times haven't changed that much. Yall are just starting to catch on.