Dink'in with the A518 valve-body

How they work, how they don't work, and how to fix them

Moderators: Greenleaf, BC847, Richie O

Dink'in with the A518 valve-body

Postby BC847 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:04 pm

Anybody tweak their own automatic trans valve-body?

I'm cypher'in the accumulators (blocker rods, different springs, etc) as well as hole sizes (in the separator plate) for quickening the shifts, etc.

Dangerous with the concept(s) of the relationship between the mechanical governor, throttle valve and main regulator.

Trying to keep the different modes (and dynamic combinations) sorted ~ WOT, part throttle up and downshifts, etc.

The smart-assed voices in my head are reporting as "Out To Lunch", or "On Another Call" type crap. Wusses. :roll:


I realize that the A518 amounts to a 727 with an OD nailed to it. With that, I've included those concepts applicable to the 727 as well.


Anybody got any good info they'd care to share? :D


Image
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:36 am

Have you ever used a Transgo kit, David? I installed a TF2 in one of my 727s about 5 years ago and IIRC, there was only like 2 places I drilled bigger holes and added a few new springs. They included the drill bits in the kit to make sure they were the right size. I'm pretty sure I kept the instructions somewhere, I'll see if I can find them....
User avatar
Ace
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:10 am
Location: CO

Postby mprmn08 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:25 pm

just put weaker springs in the accumulator pockets or just run them solid so theres no cushion at all. it depends on how hard you want it to shift.
93 w250 reg cab. rigged up stock downpipe to 4 inch to 5 inch exhaust from p.o. mild pump tweaks and all other stock for now. Project "smoke a little smoke". www.c-techperformance.com
User avatar
mprmn08
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:12 pm
Location: Grandville, MI
Top

Postby BC847 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:45 pm

Yup Ace, I initially installed most of the TransGo TFOD-518 kit some years ago. I say most as when it was installed, I did it with the transmission in the truck and as such. the OD section was not dropped so as to allow removal of the rear servo's fulcrum pin, . . . so as to allow installation of the mods for that servo. Make sense? :lol:

I installed the rest of the kit when I overhauled the trans last year.

Anyhoot, the trans has worked perfectly since that time. However, with the installation of the twins, and the subsequent gain of an additional 100ft/lbs of torque, the trans wants to slip during the engagement of each gear under WOT conditions. It's not much, but if left un-addressed, it will burn the clutches/band.
Further, the peak of the power curve has shifted up the RPM band a bit and as the trans sits, it's shifting gears under the power peak. I need to raise the WOT shift points a couple hundred RPMs.

So with researching things lately, I've found that TransGo has revised the kits so as to have something more appropriate for the diesels. In fact, the earlier TFOD series of kits are now not recommended for our trucks. This includes the TFOD-HD. I'm told by the folks at TransGo, said kits are intended for the lock-up line of A518/618 transmissions. The kits will work, but there will be a lot of left over parts.

Naturally, I found this out after I bought the SK-TFOD Diesel kit recently. Again, the kit will work, but it's also based on the lock-up versions of the A518/618. More left over parts.

The folks at TransGo say that for our limited run of non lock-up A518s, the SK-TFOD-Jr is best suited.



Now here's the fly in the ointment, none of the TransGo kits are intended for the Drag-Race application. They are more suited to the working truck that is pulling a heavy load, with amended power that is high enough that in some instances, transmission shafts are being broken with the typical "Bang-Box" shifts. TransGo has designed the latest kits so as to have our trans shift more like an Allison. A kind of "Bump and slide" shift. The emphasis is placed on a quick shift with little gear over-lap.


Crap, from what I'm seeing in these kits as well as from that I've gleaned from the WWW, most use similar methods of modifying the valve-body. Blocker-rods and springs to modify the application of the servos, as well as the cushioning effects of the accumulators. Said workings are further modified by altering the metering orifices (holes) in the separator plate.


The one thing that's got me in all of this is keeping the different modes of valve-body workings sorted.

For example: (The TransGo kits deal more with part-throttle situations)

- Most offer springs/mods for the throttle Valve assembly that include the ability to alter the shift points. The instructions are vague in that they don't make it clear that they are talking about Part-Throttle shift points. The later SK-TFOD is designed so that the driver who sports a bigger hair-drier can raise the shift points a little thus allowing the turbo to better spool in a given gear. This is NOT applicable to a WOT situation specifically.


But then again the TV works in conjunction with the mechanical governor and line pressure. All of which are dynamic.


DOH!!! :roll:


Clear as mud? :lol:
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm
Top

Postby Richie O » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:02 pm

I have just decided that I will never rebuild an auto. You just scared me. :shock:
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
User avatar
Richie O
Administrator
 
Posts: 4171
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 9:01 pm
Location: New England
Top

Postby sdstriper » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:27 pm

What ratio lever are you using and what friction material you got on the bands?
1989 D250, 727, 3.07, BHAF, 4" exhaust, Usual Suspect Gauges, tuned VE, OSPP
sdstriper
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:57 pm
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Top

Postby BC847 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:56 pm

Let's see . . . if I remember correctly . . .

- The front clutch had 4 clutch discs and 4 steels OEM. I've upgraded it to 6 discs and 6 six steels with a new piston.
- The rear clutch had four discs and steels OEM. I've upgraded it to 5 discs and steels.
- The front servo's (second gear band) Apply Lever. Went from a 3.8 to 1 ratio to a 4.2 to 1 Ratio.
- The front band was changed to a solid Red Alto unit. I can't remember what material specifically.
- The 1/4" taller Overdrive Spring.
- The OEM A518 (46RH)over-drive originally came with eight double-sided clutch discs and seven steels. I've upgraded it to the 48RE style which uses 23 single-sided friction elements giving me up to 44% more clutch apply area.
- The OEM overdrive clutch in the A518 came with five clutch discs and four steels. I've upgraded mine to six clutches and six steels for a 20% increase in apply area.

All the clutch discs are the Alto Red, with the steels being Kolene. All the servos and accumulators were replaced with the multi (metal) sealing ring / machined aluminum type.


Bunch of other stuff. :D
Last edited by BC847 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm
Top

Postby sdstriper » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:15 pm

Your on your way to a broken shaft :D
1989 D250, 727, 3.07, BHAF, 4" exhaust, Usual Suspect Gauges, tuned VE, OSPP
sdstriper
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:57 pm
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Top

Postby BC847 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Aw com'on! That's why I've stuck with the non lock-up converter. Some cushion. :oops:

I'm not after "Bang Box" engagement of the gears. I want fast, firm shifts without the slip on engagement. That and raise the WOT shift points a little. :)

I'm just about sure it'll get me to 8.5 in the 1/8th based on what it's doing now.
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm
Top

Postby Philip » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:10 pm

I used to have instructions for what your wanting to do. That plus many more valve body mods. Then I let a clown borrow my papers to copy. 1 week later he moved to the seattle area. :(

He better hope I am never in that region on vacation.
93 W350 Club/cab w/duals, buckets & console, B&W flatbed, G56, 6 spd, 3:07 rears, gages, HX40/16, 4" exhaust, 6X.018 sticks, rear air ride suspension
User avatar
Philip
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:50 am
Location: Indiana
Top

Postby Ace » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:11 am

I think you need a different transmission. Just curious, I'm suspecting due to the current engine/trans combo now creeping above the threshold of the tranny's ability to cope with additional power and different curves, you actually got a little slower?
User avatar
Ace
14mm rotor
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 2:10 am
Location: CO
Top

Postby BC847 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:09 pm

Ace wrote:I think you need a different transmission. Just curious, I'm suspecting due to the current engine/trans combo now creeping above the threshold of the tranny's ability to cope with additional power and different curves, you actually got a little slower?

From the driver's seat, it's pretty clear the ET problem is directly attributable to the Dicking-Around, getting into each gear (using the current VB configuration).
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm
Top

Postby bradshaw106 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:00 pm

i just got my shiftkit in the mail today. went with a tfod-jr
funny thing is, you open the box and their is a spool valve and three springs. :lol:
i have read thru the directions three times, they are quite vague. one thing i don't like is the don't say what each mod is doing. incase you want to customize your install. if any one has imput i would love to hear it. im waiting for my conveter thing i chime back in about my thoughts on the shiftkit.
92 4wd 180k auto, 366 spring, turned fuel pin, loaded
first diesel!
bradshaw106
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:36 am
Top

Postby BC847 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:51 pm

Muhuhhaaa! Eureka!

Image
David

1993 12mm VE Fueled W250 CC, Green
12.67 @ 103.35
Your basic farm truck ;)
BC847
Administrator
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:22 pm
Top

Postby Diesel Nut » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:06 am

All we have ever used is the TFOD - Diesel on the 518 transmissions. First thing you need to do is go through and pull that other kit out and install the TFOD Diesel kit. From there, there a few things you can do to the kit to help enhance shift speed and firmness. Just depends on how firm you want to shift.

How many turns on yout Pressure Regulator are you running?
2006 Dodge 2500 4x4
1991.5 250 Reg cab - Parts Runner
1990 350 Reg cab - Wants to be fast
www.dieselnut.com
Amsoil Dealer
Diesel Nut
fuel pin?
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
Top

Next

Return to Transmission

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests