Head gaskets

[seeker1056]

Whats out there for head gaskets?
Stock
Marine
Cometic
Copper

Without O-rings which will survive best on the street and pull track and tops 60 psi boost

What is the best install practise? We always used either a copper or aluminum based paint and coated both sides soaking it prior to install

Head stud a are a given.

Seems I read somewhere that Brian and a few others are runnin no o-ring and a marine gasket?

thanx
Ken

[KTA]

I run a copper with fire rings. I did use a stock .020" overthick gasket when I had my B-1 single and it held up to 480hp. The .020" overthick is what is referred to as the Marine. It really isn't a Marine, its just an overthick stock, and the marine 370hp from the factory uses the same gasket as a 160hp truck motor. The word on the street on the Cometic is it shouldn't have been released as the design is flawed and won't hold. Fire rings will hold your most power, followed by o-rings with a stock gasket. I think the o-rings are a better solution for a street motor as the firerings are hard on the block and deck surfaces overtime. (50,000 hard miles)

[seeker1056]

what are fire rings? and what is hard on the block and head mean?

As I know nothing of any of these setups, and i bet many on here dont as well, could Brian or someone give us a rundown on what how and why to install for the various types
and where can copper and others be purchased
thanx
Ken

[cummins king]

fire rings get done to the block and o rings get done to the head, copper head gasket should only be used for raceing but i beleive there is a few on here running them on street

[KTA]

Fire rings are a solid thick metal ring that replaces the stock firering in the stock headgasket. It can be installed with no grooves for the least holding capacity, with a groove in either the head or block for more holding capacity, or with both a groove in the head and block for maximum holding capacity. The reality is the head moves around on the block from the compression, power, and vibrations created when the motor is running. This movement causes fire rings to wear against the surfaces it contacts. A stock headgasket wears against the surfaces too, but since its crush pressure is less it wears at a slower rate, it also has more contact area so that helps as well.

[DTanklage]

that is one of the purposes of the o-ring

to keep the power ring part of the gasket from moving around

that, and they create more squish

[seeker1056]

I know I read on the cummins racing site that they o-ringed the block using the Isky tool instead o the head

Isky 200-GRM Tool O-Ring Cutter for Engine Block Kit

The kit is $285 vs $300 or so to havea head done if you can find someone

Is there a pro/con to this?

[Fnschlaud4620]

I have read that it is better to have your o-ring or firering grooves cut on a mill, that way a more consistant protrusions are accomplished. I have read that the isky will not cut as deep a groove when it hits harder material, where a mill will go through it no problem.

When the casting freezes from a liquid to solid, thinner sections freeze off more quickly than thicker, so the area between the bores can be harder than rest of the area around the bores.

Personally I will do my work to the head. I like the idea of having different options for the future, and if I do decide to change my setup all I have to do is swap the head. There is added resale value to the head, and it is easier to setup on a mill to do the work.

[ford69557ci]

I will be runnin a flat out gaskets rubber coated copper haead gasket with o rings in the block and reciever grooves cut in the head. these gaskets have been proven in 2500hp pro mod cars so i think they can take the power and heat. the only thing bad about copper is they require a retourque every now and then. comectics i have heard nothin good about them unless you engine is out where the block can be machined they really have problems and several people on comp diesel say thay are no better than a factory gasket maybe worse. no one has tried the comectic fuzion which is thier race gasket???

[Begle1]

Fire rings will hold your most power, followed by o-rings with a stock gasket. I think the o-rings are a better solution for a street motor as the firerings are hard on the block and deck surfaces overtime. (50,000 hard miles)

How much experience is that statement based on? I hadn't heard a mileage comparison when I bought my firerings...

Has nobody gone over 100,000 on firerings? Or is it that your block and head are shot by the time you get there?

I haven't cut open the Haisley shrink-wrap yet, so I'm only out shipping and restocking if I change my mind.

[ford69557ci]

I have not heard any on the milage on the fire ring setup??? But i am set on my rcc setup it holds my small blocks power and i have only done one retorque. I also ran the same rcc copper setup on a 650hp 4cyl 2.4 dsm motor with no problems or coolant leaks. I have heard of the people running the solid copper gaskets having some coolant and oil sealing issues after some miles on the street though.

[KTA]

Fire rings will hold your most power, followed by o-rings with a stock gasket. I think the o-rings are a better solution for a street motor as the firerings are hard on the block and deck surfaces overtime. (50,000 hard miles)

How much experience is that statement based on? I hadn't heard a mileage comparison when I bought my firerings...

Has nobody gone over 100,000 on firerings? Or is it that your block and head are shot by the time you get there?

I haven't cut open the Haisley shrink-wrap yet, so I'm only out shipping and restocking if I change my mind.

It is based on 2 fire ringed motors with groves in the head only, that after 50000+ miles blew. When they were taken apart it looked like the rings were trying to cut grooves in the block as well. Eventually they wore enough they lost crush, and therefore containment. Maybe if they had had groves in the head and block both to begin with they would not have failed??

[Begle1]

Seems to me, based on my vast knowledge of the subject, that if you were relying on a steel ring to seal combustion, then you would see a lot of improvement in mating the ring to the head and the block...

It seems like that's what most guys who recommend firerings over O-rings do...