Fuel pin usefulness.

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Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby IrishChamp » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:07 am

Im considering getting an M3 M&H fuel pin, I'm also upgrading to an He351ve and eventually some 90 or 150hp injectors. My question is; is a fuel pin money well spent, now with stock injectors and later on with new injectors.
Is supposedly won't hurt economy but will it help?
EDIT:
How about the timing spacer, how does it stack up economy and performance wise?
Anyone use their he351ve adaptor?
1993 W250, 115k miles, pump turned up, M&H Timing Spacer, built a518 w/ steel stator spec rite, he351ve, 16" steel wheels, 255/85r16 BFG Km2's
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby burnt_servo » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:30 pm

i'd just grind the stock pin
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curently removing the dead moose parts ....
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby ellis93 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:44 pm

I'd buy one again. Its 105$ and if you want to upgrade later you can get your money back by saling it to someone else.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby Tacoclaw » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

I won't tell you not to buy one of the pins, as I've never seen anyone who bought one be disappointed by it.

However, I ground my stock pin to within an inch of it's life, and just moving that much more caused the O-ring on the pin to start leaking. With my stock N/IC injectors, I was able to blow a completely unnecessary cloud of smoke on launch, which turned into a light haze once the S300 spooled. I know the IC injectors are a good bit smaller however, so your results may vary.
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby Richie O » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:28 pm

My 89 smokes a good puff at no boost with the stock pin. I really need to get grinding. :lol: I like my M2 pin in the 93. It really allows alot of fine tuning with the afc that you don't get with a stock cone.
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby IrishChamp » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:47 pm

I've heard of the potential leaking issue, that has me a little worried. You referenced the size of the injectors, does this mean that if I have no leaking with stock injectors I might have leaking when I upgrade to larger injectors?
Tacoclaw wrote:I won't tell you not to buy one of the pins, as I've never seen anyone who bought one be disappointed by it.

However, I ground my stock pin to within an inch of it's life, and just moving that much more caused the O-ring on the pin to start leaking. With my stock N/IC injectors, I was able to blow a completely unnecessary cloud of smoke on launch, which turned into a light haze once the S300 spooled. I know the IC injectors are a good bit smaller however, so your results may vary.
1993 W250, 115k miles, pump turned up, M&H Timing Spacer, built a518 w/ steel stator spec rite, he351ve, 16" steel wheels, 255/85r16 BFG Km2's
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby IrishChamp » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:53 pm

Is your 93 a manual or auto. When I called M&H he told me the m3 was great for economy and performance for an auto. He said the m4 would be fun but not as good on fuel economy. It seems a lot of manual guys went with an m2.
Richie O wrote:My 89 smokes a good puff at no boost with the stock pin. I really need to get grinding. :lol: I like my M2 pin in the 93. It really allows alot of fine tuning with the afc that you don't get with a stock cone.
1993 W250, 115k miles, pump turned up, M&H Timing Spacer, built a518 w/ steel stator spec rite, he351ve, 16" steel wheels, 255/85r16 BFG Km2's
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby IrishChamp » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:04 pm

Good point.
ellis93 wrote:I'd buy one again. Its 105$ and if you want to upgrade later you can get your money back by saling it to someone else.
1993 W250, 115k miles, pump turned up, M&H Timing Spacer, built a518 w/ steel stator spec rite, he351ve, 16" steel wheels, 255/85r16 BFG Km2's
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby IrishChamp » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:09 pm

There seem to be quite a few comments and a few dynos showing that the aftermarket pins make more power than aggressively ground pins. Do you have first hand knowledge?
burnt_servo wrote:i'd just grind the stock pin
1993 W250, 115k miles, pump turned up, M&H Timing Spacer, built a518 w/ steel stator spec rite, he351ve, 16" steel wheels, 255/85r16 BFG Km2's
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby 1990 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:59 am

The pin can only travel so far too, but I've never checked what the travel is.
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby dunes450r » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:18 am

1990 wrote:The pin can only travel so far too, but I've never checked what the travel is.

the easiest way to check travel it to just drive it. IIRC all the pins will up with wear marks which will shot the travel. its not much, about 3/8" vertically i think
1990 W250 getrag, 3.07's, 60k on full rebuild, DAP 5x14's, 12cm WG, 366 spring, 2nd gen IC not hooked up yet
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby Tacoclaw » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:22 am

IrishChamp wrote:There seem to be quite a few comments and a few dynos showing that the aftermarket pins make more power than aggressively ground pins. Do you have first hand knowledge?
burnt_servo wrote:i'd just grind the stock pin



It's a free mod, the easiest thing for you to do is just do it. If you don't like it, turn your pin back to the unground side, and if you accidentally grind through or break it, go ahead and buy an aftermarket pin to replace it.

You can't go wrong. :)
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby AHineman » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:01 am

I've got no personal experience with the M&H, but my Denny T made my pump leak. Not everyone has this problem though. I bought it instead of grinding the stock one so I could go back to stock later if I wanted. When I had stock injectors, pump maxed and to the head, and a stock turbo, I gained 5 psi of boost over the deep side of the stock pin. I think KTA has said you cant get any more travel than a ground stock pin can provide. The ramp profile is whats different.
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby burnt_servo » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:53 am

IrishChamp wrote:There seem to be quite a few comments and a few dynos showing that the aftermarket pins make more power than aggressively ground pins. Do you have first hand knowledge?
burnt_servo wrote:i'd just grind the stock pin




i have lots of first hand experience ..... the only difference is it is with vw ve pumps .... there is as much difference between the vw pumps , as there is between the cummins ve pum and vw pump .

if you have the tooling , the shank off of 1/2 inch drill bits ( made from high speed steel ) are a good starting point for making your own fuel cone .

the pin can only travel so far on the fuel cone .
the trick is measure measure measure so you are getting maximun travel of the pin on the cone

dyno results are easily " fixed " to create sales .

grinding your own "pin" aka fuel cone is free and easy .
'93 w250 .... stock ...
curently removing the dead moose parts ....
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Re: Fuel pin usefulness.

Postby ellis93 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:07 pm

Not to breed doubt in anyones ability with a grinder but what happens when you huh oh. Then your left with a screwed pin. That's my only problem with grinding my own. To get your desired action from the pin may take a couple of sessions with the grinding wheel to get it. That to me says lots of room for a mistake. I think that's why I bought the smallest M&H pin. I could doctor it if it didn't produce the effect I wanted and if I fugde up on it, I always had the stocker to fall back on.
I'd at least find another stock one before I would grind the only one I had.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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