NV4500 build thread?

[Mark Nixon]

***Contribution removed***

[pulltilbroke]

Might just have to make one myself, I see on Pirate quite a few people have made there own.

[Mark Nixon]

***Contribution removed***

[pulltilbroke]

A coupler and a 5th nut socket was my plan, do a little measuring, then chop and weld.

[PToombs]

I found them here, http://fifthgearrepair.com/nv4500repair.html but now I don't see a price for them.

[bgilbert]

Anyone got a pic of the locknut itself? Does it have slots in it that this 'retainer' goes in? What keeps the retainer from backing off?

[PToombs]

Bill, the nut is like a front axle bearing nut. 4 grooves on the outside. The retainer locks on the splines of the shaft and slides into the grooves on the nut so it can't turn. Marks link had a great pic of it, it's really a simple fix, and a lot less work then changing a main shaft.

[stillsmokin]

Are the internals of a gas nv4500 same as diesel nv4500 besides the input?

Nope,the cluster(counter shaft) is different. My knowledge is quite limted tho,I've only been in 3 diesel 4500s and 4or 5 gas burner. Of course you can press the front gear on and off the cluster,on early gas burners, effectively changing what it would work with,of course with that gear being keyed on that shaft your Cummins would eat it,least thats what I think.

Boy... has this thread taken off. It sure is great to see the interest.

But corrections are needed here. Ellis, I don't know you and I think we all are contributing members to the first gen community. You spoke about a homejob 5th nut tool, and thats fine if it worked for you. But for me and anybody else that values thier body parts a little advise tightening the 5th gear nut to 325-350ft/lbs. If your homade tool fails and slips you will go for a ride, imagine putting your fist into concrete when that energy is released... the medical bill surpasses the cost of a 5th gear nut wrench at $50 or so . Just a thought, I want people to save a buck and stay in one piece. I don't want to help someone injure themselves with my advice. A friend of mine had the tool and just gave it to me, along with the 29 spline mainshaft socket, I have used the heck out of it and helped others in the process. If I could find somebody with a laser table willing to make these I'd have a bunch made and sell them cheap to get the cost of the tool down. As for the other special tools, I bought only a few, made some, and came up with safe reliable alternatives for the rest. They are much to costly.

As for the tech on the countergear, that information is incorrect. There are differences between the gas and diesel NV4500 and the countershaft is not one of those. The 92-94 GM ones are oddballs with a different input shaft tooth count which carries over to the mainshaft. Here's the catch the early design countershafts are 2 piece and the front gear presses off. They made a dodge version of that shaft so you just could swap those gears and go to a dodge input.

The real countershaft swap issue comes between early cases with the wide reverse idler and the later units with the narrow reverse idler. Due to the reverse ratios changing in 1997 with the idler change

The real difference in NV4500HD and a gas version is that the size of the mainshaft doesn't neck down near as much behind the rear case bearing on the HD unit, which required a different mainshaft 5th gear with a larger spline size. The cases don't look any different, and almost everything in the main case (depending on the year and application) is the same part between both the gas and diesel version.

I would like to give some credit to Mark Nixon, some time back he was saying how he noticed alot of the parts for the NV4500 are not listed as diesel or gas, he thought that was interesting. I did my own research and actually built a 98 GM 2WD core into a 98 dodge 4x4 diesel unit, I made reverse synchronized as part of the change as well.

There are some design considerations with the NV4500 one needs to familiarize themselves with before trying to build this out of that.

[Mark Nixon]

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[ellis93]

So Mr smoking,what info that I gave was wrong about the counter shafts having a pressed gear and having to change it along with the input to make it work. You say it is wrong,then explain how to do it. IIRC the one or two teeth difference between the two and of course the retainer for the input bearing.

As far as my well being goes,you let me deal with that,I'm am perfectly capable of being safe. As for influence of other members ,I'd say readers beware and to remember everyone here puts their big boy pants on the same,one leg at a time.

[dazedandconfused]

remember everyone here puts their big boy pants on the same,one leg at a time.

I put mine on both legs at the same time.

[Mark Nixon]

Ellis, you mad, buddy?

Mark.

[ellis93]

Not at all Mr Mark,I'm just tring to figure out how the he77 I'm wrong on the swapping of that gear and input/retainer. It's perfectly fine if he wants to question how I build mine or my "tools" that I use,fact is I don't care. Mine are built and they roll out only to return when they're ran out of oil again or one to many clutch dumps have taken place.
Like I said big boy pants

[stillsmokin]

So Mr smoking,what info that I gave was wrong about the counter shafts having a pressed gear and having to change it along with the input to make it work. You say it is wrong,then explain how to do it. IIRC the one or two teeth difference between the two and of course the retainer for the input bearing.

As far as my well being goes,you let me deal with that,I'm am perfectly capable of being safe. As for influence of other members ,I'd say readers beware and to remember everyone here puts their big boy pants on the same,one leg at a time.

I already did explain it ellis...I not trying to knock you or anything but I do want to see people to get correct information. And as far as changing the input I was assuming you were thinking of going from a early GM 20T to a dodge or 95 on GM 22T application. A guy could also drop a dodge input retainer and bell on the early chevy unit then transfer punch and redrill the bottom 2 holes on the front of the case to make it fit a dodge or 96 on GM application.

The real question here is where you came up with the "diesel" specific countershaft statement. I sure haven't ever seen one, my parts supplier doesn't list one either.

Mark you are right on different cases. I can't tell you how many different case numbers there are but they all came out of the same plant and chances are those are line codes for manufacturing purposes so if problems came up with castings they could trace it back to the line affected. For practical intents and purposes there are really only 2 different cases, the wide reverse idler used up to 96 and the 97 and later narrow idler case, both must be used with the correct corresponding countershaft and mainshaft reverse gear due to the different reverse ratios. I'm sure there are different changes to the molds through time but they will all hold gears. I'll bet a ton of chevy NV4500's have been built into dodge diesel NV4500's due to massive demand. I think commercial transmission builders just take whatever bare cases they have from cores and build to the customers demands. In fact I know a local shop (ITP) just slops whatever crap they have laying around in one, that's how this 98 chevy core unit mystriously ended up with the early 1-2 hub (out of production in 94).

Your Friend,

Mr Smoking

[ellis93]

I never typed diesel specific on any post,and I've only bought one piece counters for diesel applications. My parts supplier,transtar,says that you can't buy the front counter gear new any longer and does not stock old parts. Clutch products in mobile Al does however supplies used parts but no new gear. So one could ASSume that The one piece counter is diesel specific. You are correct by the way that the 20 tooth to 22tooth gas GM to diesel thing,being that the GM gearboxs are plentiful thats what's mostly focussed on in discussion. I've have seen a few standard gas trucks but never tore into one in a dodge,for practical purposes I don't think a gas motor(stock form) has the nuts to tear one up anyhow.
I'll dig up some pics of what a 454 can do to one in a few


I don't think(my opinion) I want that in mine,whatever...

Anywho......do the tread