1st gen vs 2nd & 3rd

[Ironforger]

Wow, been reading lots of horror stories on cumminsforum.com about 3rd gen trucks & issues with technology and injectors going bad etc.

I love my 1st gen w250 but I need a dually. Was considering jumping ship and looking at 2nd and 3rd gens. Starting to think I should just be patient until a decent 1st gen comes my way.

Ok, so it's pretty obvious to me most of the 1st gen stuff is mechanical without alot of technology. I haven't focused much on the 2nd and 3rd.

So opinions are welcome. What do you think about overall reliability and ease of working on 1st gens vs 2nd and 3rd?

[RCCUMMINS89]

3rd gens will out perform a 1st gen in every way.

Problem, lies that passed about 130k, you'll put a lot of maintenance in the front of the truck.

1st gens will pull the least amount of weight as the entire truck wasn't designed for what the newer ones were. Every generation of Dodge can pull more weight and is more comfortable.

However, every generation costs more to maintain and up keep, expendentially the cost of ownership goes up as the truck is newer. You can pretty much completely rebuilt every nut and bolt on a 1st gen for about 15 grand. Which is damn near what a common rail truck costs with the same mileage as the 1st gens have.

[Ironforger]

Thanks for the info.

Ahhh comfort. My W250 bench seat is rediculously uncomfortable.

Any other opinions or technology comments/reliability/maintenance of 1st gen trucks vs 2nd & 3rd?

[Hansen01]

Get rid of the bench seat and get a set ofbuckets out of somethin

[RCCUMMINS89]

I've owned every generation but a 4th.

Hands down best truck ever built (power, economy, comfort, ride, room, etc.) was an 03 6 spd. But I sold mine with around a hundred thou and never even had to replace the brakes at that point.

The worst nightmarish truck I ever had was an 01 24 valve auto. Every 2 weeks something on the engine/fuel system broke, tranny, t-case, front end, you name it. ..... also got 14 mpg no matter what. Alll at under 130k miles

A very close 2nd to that was a p pump truck, only thing I didn't replace once a year was anything on the engine. FYI, fuel economy blew on this too. all around 200k

1st gen trucks I've owned have needed up keep due to neglect for 20 years, but I've never in my life had a 1st gen ever leave me stranded or break down on me. One can always count on 20mpg (or close).




2nd gen trucks seem to have a lot of break problems, front end problems, tranny problems, I've gone through way too many rear ends in them but that is due to previous owners towing way way way too much weight.

3rd gen trucks can have inj. problems, and front end issues, but that seems about it from my personal experience.

[Mark Nixon]

Everything I'm seeing says the 6.7 fuel injectors are a much better design.
My thoughts have always been, get an '03-(early)'04 with a 6 speed and nab me a 6.7 longblock, do the minor top end (valve cover, spacer and injection harness, mostly) and sensor swapping, then you'll have the best damned truck Dodge/Cummins should have put together.

The injector design in the 6.7 is a better design and designed to operate at several times the injection events of the '03 early '04 injectors, so they should last quite well with the early CR injection system.

Another fair option is the 2001-2002 6 speed 2500/3500, only stick a warmed over VE on it and get rid of the POS VP design.

Mark.

[RCCUMMINS89]

I would have a tend. to agree

[Ironforger]

Another fair option is the 2001-2002 6 speed 2500/3500, only stick a warmed over VE on it and get rid of the POS VP design.

Mark.

Ahhh I'm glad to hear this. I've got my eye on a 2002 6 speed 3500. 200k miles in the $6000 range. Are the Auto trans' no good in 2002?

Can you tell me more about the warmed over VE? what is it? And what is a VP and why is it a POS?

How much should I expect to pay for a warmed over VE?

Thanks!

[Mark Nixon]

In my opinion, a 2002 6 speed, 4wd Extended Cab Dually is the holy grail of the VP trucks!
It's the latest, greatest updates, some of the more major issues were addressed, big input on the 6 speed, rear disc brakes, a nice set-up to tow with for the 2nd gen.
LOVE the stance and, in the darker colors, the pure "Badass Look" of them.
If the one you're looking at is in good mechanical and cosmetical shape, it's clean and has the door bottoms not rusted out in it, 6k is a decent deal.

The VP is the OEM pump on the 1998-2002 (24 valves), it is computer controlled and has been known to be highly susceptible to failure due to lack of proper fuel supply.
Treated right, they will last, with a proper fuel supply and keep the tuner off it.

A "warmed over" ve is what we 1st gen folks typically do to ours, governor spring, play with the fuel pin, starwheel, all the SIMPLER "gotta' have Mo-Powah" tricks.
Making the VE pump work on the 24 valve is somewhat involved, but can up the reliability by a bunch and if you like the repair-ability and tune-ability of a mechanical pump, the VE is it.
As with any fueling modification, you might want to match the turbo to the pump and your intended usage, but the HY35W on that truck might work very well with the VE.

The auto trannies in those trucks are okay, for an automatic.
I just prefer manuals, plus usually manuals do better on fuel and have more select-able power where you want it.
I feel the 6 speed is great for it's gear splits.

Mark.

[CumminsPower59]

My brother scored a beautiful 2002 2500, ECSB a few years ago, 92k on it for only 11k. Had a NV4500 and 4.10's in it. All we really did was upgrade the fuel supply and install free-spin hubs on the front and it got 21+mpg's pretty easy. I really liked that truck, rode nice, drove nice...and then he sold it. Oh well..

[Mark Nixon]

My brother scored a beautiful 2002 2500, ECSB a few years ago, 92k on it for only 11k. Had a NV4500 and 4.10's in it. All we really did was upgrade the fuel supply and install free-spin hubs on the front and it got 21+mpg's pretty easy. I really liked that truck, rode nice, drove nice...and then he sold it. Oh well..

Oh, believe you me, I'm REALLY kicking my ass for selling the 2001 E/C, 2WD, Dually, 6 speed I bought for $2800 last summer.
Had a beat to hell bed and a bad passenger's door, found a nice WHITE bed on C/L for $300 and had a decent door IN COLOR (white).
The tranny scared me, got to shifting hard and got me nervous, so I dumped it for 5k, then later realized I should have dropped the oil and overfilled it prior to getting nervous.
It was candy, candy, candy, full power, leather, sport package, radio with CD/Cassette, even had the factory anti-theft with the alarm set light in the OH console.

Here it is AFTER the bed and door were installed:




Mark.

[CumminsPower59]

That's a good looking truck Mark.

[Mark Nixon]

That's a good looking truck Mark.

Dammit! I know!

Mark.

[Ironforger]

How are the 97 trucks?

Considering a 97 3500 4x4 auto, 230 k miles in the $6000 range.

Any known common issues?

[Mark Nixon]

How are the 97 trucks?

Considering a 97 3500 4x4 auto, 230 k miles in the $6000 range.

Any known common issues?

6k for a 1 ton auto truck, with that many miles, seems a bit high to me.

The autos are pretty worthless, but by that many miles it will have been replaced.
Whether it's a nice one is debatable. They all seem to shift like butter, but the lock-up trannies seem to be easier to get along with.

RUST in the FRAME! They are pretty noted for rusting out in the frame near the tranny crossmember and to add insult to injury, they like to CRACK there as well.

Steering issues, these trucks have a well-known deficiency with ball joint, steering boxes and track bars being loose.
If none of it has been replaced, count on it needing it very SOON.

Beware of an engine that misses/white smokes, they have been known to stick delivery valves or injectors.
Also check for blow by, anything above a slight haze, with that many miles can be a problem.
Excessive oil leakage is also a problem and, if located at the timing case can be a leak caused by a dowel pin getting shot into the case.

Besides all of this, you should look at the normal items that need attention like interior, brakes, suspension, etc.

Mark.