Garrett big single?

[CHEMMINS]

Compressor Wheel Inducer/Exducer 80mm x 109mm
Turbine Wheel Inducer/Exducer 87mm x 83mm
Turbine Outlet 5 Inch V-Band
Turbine Inlet T4 Divided
Turbine A/R - 0.90


Now my question.

Would this be equivalent to a 14/16 cm t3? No real hard conversions out there for this. (I looked)

Thoughts of puttin it on a 93 cooled with some decent sticks, maybe a 14 mm. (very little towing, lil 4xing, lotsa highway, lotsa back street fun)

[pulltilbroke]

Gonna be way to big for street use. Hell gonna be to big as a single in a VE truck period

GT45?

[CHEMMINS]

Nope...its an s480 with a 0.90 t-4 flange turbine. Figured it would push some air with a smallish turbine.

Seen guys talkin about twins with the s400 (75mm) and 1.32 t6, so I figured the 80 mm with a small t4 would be sweet. The 480 has a huge map, decent range sweet spot.

The turbine housing, best as I can tell, would fall somewhere around a 14/16 cm.

[ford69557ci]

That would be a great turbo for a set of twins. I have one with the t6 housing and a 66 71 14 s300 that is goin to be used as twins some day. It would also make a great single for a small block chevy lol, but it would never work good on a single for a ve cummins. It might be ok for a huge fuel huge rpm p pumper.

[KTA]

An s480 is OK for s ingle turbo race only application with tons of fuel and rpm'S. I know they don't like being choked down with those little housings and really fall on their face. Most of the 2.8 pullers around here are running a 480 with the 1.32 T6 but it doesn't light till about 3800rpm. Not gonna work for a VE unless for a low pressure turbo in which case you will want the standard 1.32 exh not that restrictive power choking .90.

[CHEMMINS]

Well, as far as using it for twins, there are 5 turbine housings avail.

T4 - 0.90, 1.0, 1.25
T6 - 1.10, 1.32

All have the same ind/exd on compressor and turbine except for the 1.32 turbine which is a 96mm x 87mm.

[jwatso8]

CHEMMINS

why do you want such i big turbo. you didnt say what pump mods. you did, or what size injectors your running. but i got a high tech turbo HTBG2 62/65/12. and i run DDP stage 4 and the pump turn up all the way. and it only smokes when i stomp it. at WOT it there no haze. my turbo says it rated for 450-525 hp.

[CHEMMINS]

I guess you could say it is for stimulating conversation on other ways to get power. There are great minds here, and sometimes if we think outside the box, outside of the "tried and true", we can come up with the unthinkable.


I have a place local where I can get brand new long blocks, and heads. So to be able to storm ideas, with whats currently avail to us, may result in a combo that exceeds expectations, and is away from the norm. And it is something that can be built from the ground up, without having to take away from regular driving until it was time to do the swap.

Now I know there are varients of the s-series borgs that people are unaware of, and the ones I posted earlier are some of them.

There are other versions, like:

64mm x 91mm comp, with a 1.10 a/r 83mm x 74mm turb wheel (t4 housings avail in (0.90, 1.0, and 1.25)

71mm x 100mm comp, with a 1.32 a/r 96mm x 87mm turb wheel

75mm x 100mm comp (s475) but now can come with a 1.10 and the larger 96mm x 87mm turbine wheel.


I think a lot of people are stuck on the holsets and their sizing, when garretts are avail, and could potentially do more, cover more rpm range. These borgs have the ETT wheels, making them very efficient.

Also I think sticks and pump upgrades should be based off what turbo(s) you plan to use, not the other way around. Sticks and pump tweaks are easily tailored, whereas turbos are set as to what they are, and if you do the sticks and pump first, you are compromising on potential output.

[ahale2772]

god i love reading post like this, its diesel porn

[jwatso8]

CHEMMINS
thats good thanking out side the box. but you sould know that with out fuel increasing. the heat energy is not there to drive the turbo. so if you were to put on a big turbo and stock settings. it would take for ever to build boost. plus large single turbos like the higher RPM range. which the VE pumps dont have. form what ive seen, is they fuel hard in the 2500-2800 range. then if you were to do pump adjustments and large sticks. the the stock turbo would be to small. the engine would be over fueled and lacking air. plus EGT's would be through the roof. so it really a catch 22. but when i replaced all my stuff, i did the pump adjustments first and had to replaced the turbo next. because the compressor side was leaking oil. then came the injectors. even with the small turbine housing, with out the extra fuel i couldnt get but 32lbs of boost. when i added the injector, i can make 40lbs+ now with the extra heat energy.
ahale2772 that funny sthi (diesel porn)

[CHEMMINS]

I know fuel has to increase. Thats a given. I know heat and volume = velocity = spool. That is the reason they make different turbine housings and wheels.

Now if we break the turbo down into 2 sperate systems, hot and cold, we can analyze how much heat/volume is needed to spin the turbine side, without excessive egt's. When looking at the cold side, we are looking at how much mass and pressure we are putting into the system.

We can call them large singles, but we are referring to the compressor side of the turbo. The turbine side can be large or small. A small turbine side will create boost a the lower rpm due to the smaller housing creating more velocity. The larger turbine, like you say, will be later in the rev range. So in theory you can have a semi quick spooling "large" turbo.

The tricky part is to balance the two sides for our application. We want the quick spool, but large mass of air to enter the engine. Now when we cram the larger amount of air in, we create a a restriction with a small turbine, choking the engine (where a properly sized wastegate comes into play). Using higher boost pressures, drives heat temps skyward, but if we can keep boost to lower levels and move more mass (larger compressor), we will see an increase in power, and a decrease in egt.

There can be a turbo that is not laggy, and create large mass of air, without driving boost pressures through the roof, or needing massive rpm's to light them. Our usable range on the 12v is limited to approx a 2300 rpm range. 1300-3600. (unless extensive supporting mods are made to accomodate more rpm)

Now the questions is, how much air can we cram into the engine to be able to use all fuel available from the ve pump. (after all possible mods to pump) How many gph can the ve move when it is maxxed out?

[ahale2772]

i wonder if anyone has experimented with one of those 2 stage turbos the new "scorpion" 6.7 ford diesel has? it looks pretty interesting, also i think some better air cooling methods should be used i think we need to think of air density as well as air pressure

[CHEMMINS]

Not up much on the newer ford stuff, but the fact that they are twins (and not in a compound way) they are made for approx 3.35L, which would be way to small to be used as a single, and probably too large and complicated to be used as twins.


As far as thinking of density and pressure, I am, except instead of using density I use the word "mass". Boost = Pressure, Mass = Density. More mass/density at a given pressure will create more power. And if we can increase the mass coming out of the turbo while keeping it in a reasonable pressure range, an intercooler can further increase density with a minimal pressure drop....usually 1-2 psi.

[ahale2772]

exactly and for guys like me who dont want to put 60 psi and blow a stock headgasket, air density is more of a goal