Timing Advance Spacer...

[KTA]

It appears as though the spacer has mearely resulted in the same thing as bumping your timing would have as your peaks appear to have shifted to higher rpms which is what you would typicly see from a timing increase. Had you retained the low end more then it could be said it is a true dynamic improvement across all rpms. I think a longer spring needs to be developed to make up for the loss in spring tension by installing the spacer. Then you could have a more dramatic timing curve and therby increase not only top end power, but help spool up and low end power by keeping timing lower at lower RPM's.

[lectro_static]

It appears as though the spacer has mearely resulted in the same thing as bumping your timing would have as your peaks appear to have shifted to higher rpms which is what you would typicly see from a timing increase. Had you retained the low end more then it could be said it is a true dynamic improvement across all rpms. I think a longer spring needs to be developed to make up for the loss in spring tension by installing the spacer. Then you could have a more dramatic timing curve and therby increase not only top end power, but help spool up and low end power by keeping timing lower at lower RPM's.

That I find VERY interesting he was telling me that there are several springs that come in the pumps and some are longer. Ill have to look into that.

[burnt_servo]

kta , so your thinking of bumping up the static timing , and trying to delay the dymanic timing by a longer / maybe stiffer spring ?

[KTA]

No with this mod, your static timing is the same, but your dynamic timing is increased unless you do something to counteract the loss of spring pressure against the timing piston by adding the spacer. By putting a longer spring in with the same spring rate as stock you could maintain your original low end dynamic timing, while still allowing for more advance in the upper RPM range where the extra power comes from. This would aid spool up and general driving.

[BC847]

Thanks for pointing that out KTA.

[RSWORDS]

No with this mod, your static timing is the same, but your dynamic timing is increased unless you do something to counteract the loss of spring pressure against the timing piston by adding the spacer. By putting a longer spring in with the same spring rate as stock you could maintain your original low end dynamic timing, while still allowing for more advance in the upper RPM range where the extra power comes from. This would aid spool up and general driving.

Brian do you know of a Bosch spring from a VE in another set-up that woudl do this or would it be a case of finding a spring that would work from a drawer?

[lectro_static]

Thomas pulled the spacer out of his truck so that I could get it in, in time for my dyno appt. His truck was factory non i/c and his spring IS noticeable longer then mine, I would guess 3/8"maybe more. Maybe it would be better to use a non i/c spring?

Just got a message from Thomas, "was just reading over at 1st gen.org and saw the posts about a longer ksb spring, which we dont need to get the same spring tension since we installed a shim under the spring when we installed the spacer.

a different spring could gain you alittle more dynamic timing but not much you could go from 6.4mm of travel to 6.8mm of dynamic timing piston travel.

just wanted to get you that information.

stock spring rate is retained when installing the spacer.

Thank you,
Thomas "




Thought I would throw this out there also

[oklahoma6speed]

a bigger stiffer spring will do the same as the spacer?

[KTA]

no

[Tsbourne09]

Bump bump! Since im going to be digging in my pump soon (planed on doing it yesterday but time is limited) i might as well do this also. Soooo.......
My IP timing is to the head now. I have lots of fuel... Maxed pump raptor 150 and 7x.015 injectors. Running 50 lbs of boost. Putting 354 gov spring (4200rpm) in when i go in pump.
Think i can run the timing i have now and the spacer??? Anyone else run maxed iP timing and the spacer? It smokes like crazy (constant haze) as is and gets very very hot. Wanting to cut down on that lol.

[Tacoclaw]

It smokes like crazy (constant haze) as is and gets very very hot. Wanting to cut down on that lol.

I'd say a better turbo will be more effective than any timing bump.

BC has his timing jumped 2 teeth and is also running the timing spacer last I read. I figure he'll be in here to to let you know.

[Remps]

X2 on the turbo. I think BC went back to one tooth and the spacer, which helped clean up some smoke. I'm sure he'll tell ya. Keep in mind its case pressure that moves the timing piston, the vane pump increases case pressure with rpm, and huge injectors can theoretically drop your case pressure at wot. Which is why lotsa people run lotsa static timing to make up for a loss of dynamic timing due to pump and injector mods.

[BC847]

I still run the injection event timing two teeth advanced at the gears as well as the M&H timing advance spacer.

With the KSB energized, dialing in the timing for the most power on a 248HD dyno has the stock timing marks fall almost in line with one another (slightly advanced).

As such, when racing and having the KSB energized, the engine rattles pretty good around 1200 to 1600 engine RPM. Getting above 1600 RPM or so has the rattle smooth out. Of coarse, with normal daily-driving, the KSB is off.

Stock/OEM 12mm VE, Scheid 6x.016", S362/14 over an HT3B, PDR head, Hamilton 181/210 cam (currently), Hellman IC, etc comes up with approx 68psig boost at full song.


IMO, the M&H timing spacer doesn't necessarily lend itself to just advancing the injection event timing exclusively. It widens the dynamic injection event timing range. With that, leaving the timing marks and gears stock/OEM, one certainly will have more advance. But with radical injection event timing, setting things for optimum WOT power, the timing spacer allows one to be able to get back closer to a more conservative injection event timing when not WOT.
I guess you could say I use the timing spacer exactly opposite what it was originally intended for. To retard the timing during regular/normal highway driving.

[Tsbourne09]

Timing marks

I had someone else do the timing on my truck a year or so ago. I always thought it was to the head becaise my afc housing(when i had one) was very close to the head. I am getting prepared to put the timing back to stock just in case what i have now and the spacer will be to much. The mark on my pump is not there? U can see the mark on the timing case clear. What do you guys think my timing is at? Think i can run this and the spacer? Wheres the beat place to get a wrench to do the job? Etc etc. please tell me what you think and know anout all this...

[Remps]

With 7x15 injectors I'd personally try it without retarding the timing.