'90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Does it have spark? And other questions...

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'90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:22 pm

So I bought a '95 Ram 3500 with a bad engine, but rebuildable. Found a '90 low mileage engine, which I want to drop in temporarily, while I rebuild the '95. The '90 was removed with the wires cut off leaving the connectors all intact. Can anyone tell me what problems will I have figuring out the wiring to the engine any other issues? (I don't need to hear the EPA issues, it's temp, remember). What other parts off the 2nd gen should I put on the 1st gen motor? Thanks for your help.
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby ellis93 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Manual or auto trans
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:51 pm

sorry, should have said it is an auto trans.
Last edited by r.anger on Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby ellis93 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:17 pm

I don't know about the 90 model but the 95 will need the crank sensor and the tps for the truck to run out the same. Tps for o/d and lock up. The crank sensor to tell the computer it is running so it will turn things on at the proper time.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:33 pm

Thanks a lot for your input! Well, I do have both motors to transfer parts, but I also know the pumps are different, so I assume the throttle linkage will not be the same and will require some modification for the TPS, right? Is the crank sensor something I can and need to move between motors ('90 motor was mated to a manual trans)?
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby ellis93 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:48 am

You could do this instead of worring with the tps.
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... hp?t=42003

Only other thing is the detent cable on the trans. It has to be hooked up for the trans to work correctly. My 93 has a place for it to hook to my trottle. I'm not sure about the 90 motor. If you need the linkage you might contact Mark Nixon on here. He is the parts man and might would have it used.

You'd have to look and see on the crank sensor
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:24 am

Thanks, hope to get started on this by the weekend, I'll let you know how it goes!
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby Mark Nixon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:22 am

Problem with using a non-intercooled VE engine is, one thing leads to another, which leads to another, which leads to another....:lol:
An intercooled VE one works much slicker.

First off, if the '95 is a 4wd, you'll have to swap the oil pan, otherwise if it's 2wd leave it alone.
You'll also need the engine mount brackets from the '95, of course.

On wiring it, everything pretty much plugs in, the oil sender is the same, you'll need the '95s temp sender, the alternator wiring unplugs from the '90 and plugs into the '95.
The RED wire in the '95 start/run solenoid wiring is switched and hot all the time and goes to the VE's FSS.
The white wire is hot only when cranking.

To get your Tach and Charging to work, simply use the crank sensor and the harmonic balancer from the '95, though SOME (Not all) 1990 engines do have the notched balancer for the sensor to read off of.

As far as running the overdrive and lock-up, if you acquired the TPS and it's mounting bracket from a '91.5-'93 and use the 1990 engine's TV cable, it's all bolt on and should work fine.
The TPS shares the same range values, resistancewise.

I don't know how involved you want to get with the Intercooler, but you can swap all of the parts associated with it from the '95 onto the 1990.
Also, the 1990 uses the same pullies and fan support (not the fan) as the '95, but you'll need the '95's A/C mount for the A/C compressor to work and it is a direct swap.
Use the thermostat housing and radiator from the '95, along with the radiator hoses and any other accessories, as mentioned here.

On the intake inlet, since your replacement is non-intercooled, you'll need to remove the accelerator bracket for the '95 airhorn to bolt to the intake, as well as use your '95 intake plate, which has the sensors you'll need for the pre-heaters to work correctly.
The intake plate on a non-intercooled locates the inlet 4" further rearward, but if you install the '95 one as it is on the '95 engine, it corrects the offset.
In reality, if you turn a non-intercooled plate 180*, it puts the inlet in the same place as the Intercooled and '94-up engines.

As outlined above, you will need to at least modify the accelerator bracket to clear the intake horn, which leaves you with modifying the old Non-intercooled bracket (preferable, if you have the tools to do so), or acquire the '91.5-'93 brackets, which will still require mods to install on a Non-intercooled engine.
The accelerator/cable mount assembly itself is the SAME between intercooled or Non-intercooled engines, so that part of the assembly is taken care of.

You will have to modify the fuel inlet and returns, but you could look into the '92-'93 lift pump fittings as a possible solution, as they are a "clip on" design, whereas the pre-'92 versions are hose clamped.
Another solution would be to run the '95 lift pump set-up and regulate it down to under 15 psi.

Of course, you'll likely run the turbo off the '95, if not, use the '95s cast turbo elbow to solve the exhaust issue.

All this being said, since it's a "temporary" engine, I'd just install it with the 1995's radiator and bare necessities and run it non-intercooled. ;)

Mark.
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby dunes450r » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:37 pm

:shock:
mark is the man!
1990 W250 getrag, 3.07's, 60k on full rebuild, DAP 5x14's, 12cm WG, 366 spring, 2nd gen IC not hooked up yet
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:56 pm

Wow Mark, you are the man! You have summed up pretty much everything I wanted to know in one post. As I said earlier I am going to try to pull the engine from the '95 this weekend. Give it a good clean up and move it into the garage with the '90 and start swapping parts. Since it is going to stay in for probably only a few months while I rebuild the '95, going with bare necessities makes sense. So.... that being said, would you mind boiling it down to just the necessities for me? Oh, and it is 4WD.

Thanks so much,
Ron
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby Mark Nixon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:47 pm

Since it's 4wd, I'm told that the axle on a 2nd Gen gen will beat the pan up, so it should be changed.

The basics to swap from the 1995 to the 1990 are:
Engine mounts.
Thermostat housing, aka, upper hose inlet.
Radiator.
Fan assembly.
Outlet elbow on the turbo.
Temperature sender unit (back driver's corner on the head).
TV cable from the '90 engine.
Crank sensor and (if necessary) harmonic balancer.

If you want to hook up the A/C, you need to also keep the 1995's compressor and mount (which is also the lower hose inlet), if you don't, just maintain the 1990's compressor and let it ride.
the lower hose will connect to either, IIRC.

As also mentioned, you can either find the '91.5-'93 TPS and bracket, or do the potentiometer/lock-up switch conversion.

On the fuel, the SIMPLEST is to retain the 1990 lift pump and make your own connections to the fuel lines.
You will likely have to adapt the throttle cable end, as well, but it should be something you can "shadetree" together. :D

Mark.
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby r.anger » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:11 pm

Awesome Mark, I'm gonna run with this!! Oh, I assume I should do the KDP on the '90 as well?

Thanks,
Ron
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby Mark Nixon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:08 pm

r.anger wrote:Oh, I assume I should do the KDP on the '90 as well?

Thanks,
Ron

Yeah, it's easy while they are out, that's for sure!

Mark.
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby ellis93 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:38 pm

Told you. Ask the Parts man.

Hey Mr Mark is the 727 detent/kick down bracket the same as the later 518s. Cause I was thinking the throttle bracket might have the right hole in it.
93 D250 ,5 speed,4.11s,k&n autometer tach pyro trans boost guages,GDS 60mm h1c 14cm,honed 5x10,hplp/reg,1/8 timing,M+H M2 fuel pin, tims cooler tubz
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Re: '90 engine in a '95 elec. help and....

Postby Mark Nixon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:03 pm

Yessir, they are.
Though the I/C throttle bracket sits a bit rearward of the Non-I/Ced bracket (as evidenced by the throttle link length difference), the difference can be adjusted out with the cable.
The tranny end also mounts the same and uses the same bracket.

Mark.
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