Some noob Q's

[BrandonMag]

Hi, everybody. First time poster.
A little background: last May I picked up the truck in my sig, an '85 Ford F350 crew cab 4X4 for a song. It had a bad 460, so I decided I'd repower it with a Cummins. (I've also got an '89 F250 with the International 7.3 IDI, so this isn't my first diesel. It is, however, my first Cummins 6BT build.)
I searched around and found a 6BT out of an '89 Dodge W350. Seemed like a reasonable price ($1200), so after talking with the guy on the phone, I ran up near Seattle and bought it. That was in September.
I've since slowly been working on the engine, pulling it apart, learning about the Cummins 5.9 and fixing some of the issues that have come up. I've got some free time for the next month or so and I'd like to at least get this engine back together. (I should mention I bought the Cummins shop manual, so I've got most of the information I need on my workbench now.)
Deciding I wanted to upgrade to a 366 spring, I read about the 60 lb. valve spring upgrade and bought a set of them from toxicdiesel.com. Realizing it was prudent to have the head magna-fluxed and hot-tanked before I installed the springs and bolted it back down to the block, I took the head in to a local machine shop. About a week later, the machinist called me back to tell me the head was warped .011 and five of the six combustion chambers were cracked from the injector hole all the way up through the intake valve seat. I stopped by to take a look at the damage, and sure enough, the head was bad. I got a phone # from the machinist for another shop that specialized in welding cracked heads, so I gave them a call. The guy said from what I'd told him it would probably be around $500 to fix. He recommended getting a new head. He said they run around $700. I called around to find out about head replacement cost. I was quoted $650 for a new one from Cummins, valves and springs installed, ready to go. Does that sound like a reasonable price? Also, the consensus from the machine shops I've talked to seems to be that studs are worth the money (around $450). Would you guys agree?

Here's my plan for the build:
Denny T stage II fuel pin and AFC delete top
366 spring
Rebuilt 215 hp Bosch injectors from Diesel Fuel Injection Services in Portland, OR
I plan on running an intercooler from a 7.3 Powerstroke with coolertubz pipes
An electric fuel pump
Stock Holset H1C turbo for now
BHAF
some kind of water-meth injection, although that may not be right away

As you can see, I'm not going to be running an insane amount of horsepower, although more is usually better.
If I can get 250-300 hp and around 650-700 ft/lb of torque, I'd be a happy camper.

[fatty]

Don't even bother getting the head welded, it's just going to crack again. The price for a new head sounds about right. The new head will have 7mm injector bores, so keep that in mind when you get injectors. If you have the money for studs then go ahead and get them.
The AFC delete top makes the fuel pin useless, so you need to choose one or the other. Also the 215hp injectors I'm assuming are from a 2nd gen dodge, if so they will not work with your stock injection lines (the 2nd gen injectors have 14mm threads, your injection lines are for 12mm threads).

[Tacoclaw]

What work do you expect the truck to do? That AFC delete with the bigger injectors will probably make the truck a bit smoky. I know people claim that they control their smoke with their foot, but so do I and I've still got the AFC.

That sounds like a pretty good price to me for a head. Shipping them may Tack on an extra $50-$100, but I still don't think that's unreasonable for a new, Cummins brand loaded head.

If you've got the $450 laying around and have nothing else to spend it on the studs are a good way to never have to worry again, but with your mod list you won't even be stressing factory, retorqued headbolts. I'd just put the $450 into the turbo fund. If your timing is kept sane stock headbolts torqued to 125 ft/lbs can take 40psi just fine.

And what he said as well ^

[BrandonMag]

Thanks for the quick responses.
I'm planning on using this truck to tow an 8000 lb-ish trailer, haul the occasional load of firewood and anything else that may need doing.
I'm hoping this engine doesn't smoke terribly bad, if it does, I guess I'll have to install a bigger turbo.
The AFC delete top renders the fuel pin useless? Dennis didn't say anything about that on the phone.
The injectors are the ones that came with my engine, rebuilt with 7 mm tips. There shouldn't be any problems with them working with the fuel lines.
Two of the machinists I talked to on the phone claimed that the factory head bolts are only good for up to 20 PSI.

[fatty]

I'm not sure what injectors you have then, but if they work that's cool. I've been running 40-45 psi on my stock headbolts for about a year and a half now.

[ahale2772]

The AFC delete top renders the fuel pin useless? Dennis didn't say anything about that on the phone

yes, if Denny T was trying to sell you both, hopefully he was not trying to screw you over, because the pin is nothing but a pretty piece of metal when you delete the AFC. Not trying to criticize here... but there is no sense in trying to screw with the performance of a system if you don't know how it works. So honestly, its best to either hit the books, and try and figure out how it all works, or take it apart for yourself.

stock head bolts will hold some power, but its not really a guarantee. Mine held 40+ psi for a long time, before finally giving up. Question is, can you afford the failure when the head gasket blows.

[BrandonMag]

Not trying to criticize here... but there is no sense in trying to screw with the performance of a system if you don't know how it works.

No offense taken. I'm just trying to learn. It sounds like I may have a brand new Stage II fuel pin for sale in the near future to go along with the 60 lb. valve springs I'm not going to need. Yay.

stock head bolts will hold some power, but its not really a guarantee. Mine held 40+ psi for a long time, before finally giving up. Question is, can you afford the failure when the head gasket blows.

I'm thinking if I like this engine once it's installed in the truck, I'll bolt a bigger turbo on in the future. My thought is it'd be better to have the engine overbuilt to start with and have room for improvement down the road than be limited by my head bolts. I only want to take this thing apart once.

[Tacoclaw]

Yeah, the pin(cone) is how the AFC functions. There is a pin that rides on the ramp of the cone. Boost pushed down on a diaphragm that the cone is screwed into and as the cone goes down the pin comes out allowing more fuel. If you delete the AFC there will be no pin(cone) in the pump anymore. (was that so hard, Alex? )

If you want to sleep soundly at night the studs are a good buy. They can only help, but I drove my truck for 3 years at 40+ psi on them. It was showing leakage on a couple when I pulled it off recently, but I'm blaming that on a couple 60psi runs testing the twins and a 50psi setting I ran once I had them tuned. I slept like a baby running my stock bolts at 40psi.

If those injectors are 7mm tips, there's a chance they're 145* spray pattern. Your engine has pistons designed for a 155* spray angle It's no biggie, but it allows you to run a decent amount of timing without spraying outside the bowl. If you advance your timing much your cylinder pressures will go up and that will make the stock bolts unhappy.

If you want the studs there's no reason not to buy them, they just may not be needed depending on your plans.

:edit:

It sounds like I may have a brand new Stage II fuel pin for sale in the near future to go along with the 60 lb. valve springs I'm not going to need. Yay.

I'm sure if you gave Denny a ring back and explain it to him he'd buy the pin back from you. I haven't heard a bad story yet about his dealings with customers so he may have just had a brain fart when you were on the phone.

[dazedandconfused]

If you plan to pull a trailer and not be smoky don't delete the afc. What are you doing for a Transmission?

[BrandonMag]

If those injectors are 7mm tips, there's a chance they're 145* spray pattern. Your engine has pistons designed for a 155* spray angle It's no biggie, but it allows you to run a decent amount of timing without spraying outside the bowl. If you advance your timing much your cylinder pressures will go up and that will make the stock bolts unhappy.

Thanks, that is a good piece of advice. Is there any way to tell if the tips I've got are the 145* tips?

If you want the studs there's no reason not to buy them, they just may not be needed depending on your plans.

Yeah, I'm thinking that's the road I'm going down. Better safe than sorry (in the future), right?

I'm sure if you gave Denny a ring back and explain it to him he'd buy the pin back from you. I haven't heard a bad story yet about his dealings with customers so he may have just had a brain fart when you were on the phone.

You're right about that. I called him Monday because the delete top hadn't arrived yet (it had been over a week). He apologized profusely, explained what had happened and even returned some of my money! Good guy to deal with!

[BrandonMag]

If you plan to pull a trailer and not be smoky don't delete the afc.

Why would I not want to delete the AFC if I plan on pulling a trailer and don't want haze?

What are you doing for a Transmission?

I plan on running a ZF 5 speed out of a late 80s Ford diesel.

[Tacoclaw]

If you plan to pull a trailer and not be smoky don't delete the afc.

Why would I not want to delete the AFC if I plan on pulling a trailer and don't want haze?

The AFC withholds fuel from the engine until boost is present. It actually prevents hazing, not encourages it.

[dazedandconfused]

With out the AFC it's gonna full fuel right from the start with no boost causing haze/black smoke. It's much easier to control smoke by adjusting the afc. It's gonna fuel hard and cause smoke and heat especially with 8-10K behind it no matter how much you feather it with the delete.

[oldestof11]

Big injectors, dennyt pin, plus tuning make for a hot street truck, let alone tow 8k.

If the stock headbolts are only good for 20psi, I am in trouble when I b!ch slap the peg with my needle in my 30lbs boost gauge.

[ahale2772]

(was that so hard, Alex? )

well 55 different pins and 18 different screws... better of just taking her apart, or look at a diapragim

the 7mm tips will probably be 145* just because they are 7mm tips, those usually came on 94-98

it is true... its going to be H-E double hockey sticks trying to pull a trailer without melting something